166 replies to this topic

[jgf]

I've often thought "Demo" a bit misleading, demos are typically crippled in some way - you can only play one level, or can only play ten minutes, or cannot save, etc. - I view this as "GPL Lite", a fully functional install but without all the tracks, serving two major purposes: a simple one-click install (we're dealing with a generation of Steam users) for newcomers that will have them up and running with a minimum of work, and a quick way for us old-timers to reinstall the base game.  In each case I think we should deal with the default game but with the most recent updates to the cars and tracks, though I agree there should be no more than three or four tracks included;  and since we speak of historical accuracy those should be 1967 tracks, I would opt for the new Spa67 being one of them as it is an excellent example of what can be done with "old" GPL.  (Targa is a beautiful creation but is daunting to experienced simracers, most newcomers would be put off by 45 minute laps on a track where every corner can be disastrous;  plus it would be a substantial increase to the download size.)

I am ambivalent about including GEM.  It isn't necessary for the base game but is necessary for mods, so if it is included one mod should also be included ('65 F1 or '67 F2 would be my suggestion) but not installed;  instead, provide simple, step-by-step, instructions so even a moron like me could get the mod functional.

As for all the patches, include only those for which instructions or caveats are not applicable;  for example, I do not advocate the 60fps patch because it is not a "set and forget" option, newcomers could easily be confused by its limitations.  Remember, all this should be easily accessible to newcomers, do not overwhelm them with options (experienced players already know what they want to install and, usually, where to find it).

As for permissions, this is an old debate, often quite heated, on most game sites;  basically fueled by different concepts of infringement in the US and Europe.  In the US a copyright holder has absolute control over his property, whether free or not, and infringement is usually whatever he claims;  in Europe infringement is only applicable when the copyright holder can prove monetary or intellectual damage;  this can be further obfuscated when ownership of the title and logo, ownership of the core programming, and ownership of the marketing rights, may be held by different entities.  (This can become absolutely ridiculous, as illustrated by https://kotaku.com/th...back-1688358811)

These disparate attitudes are evident even with user created mods.  In the US I can upload my mod to be freely downloaded, if someone then puts my mod on another site (still a free download) without my permission I can order them to remove it.  In Europe I would essentially be told, "it's a free download, you are not losing any revenue;  all your documentation is included, no one is claiming they created the file, so you are not losing intellectual recognition ...there is no infringement".  True, it is considerate to ask, and get, permission, but the difference in legalities is interesting.  (We'll not discuss another race sim site where mere mention of a dread "unauthorized conversion" merits a forum "infraction".)

Consider this scenario, from a flight sim site, which sparked an argument that got the thread locked.  Someone creates a utility for a game, it is shareware which runs for thirty minutes then requires a registration number, it can be downloaded from numerous sites and registered on the creator's site.  After several years the creator moves on to other endeavors and takes down his site;  his utility is still readily available but there is now no way to register it.  People still want to use this program and are quite willing to pay the fee, forum posts regarding this usually elicit several people either posting their registration numbers or sending them via PM.  Are the people posting their registration numbers and those now using them guilty of software piracy?  or is this abandonware, with the creator being deprived of nothing?

[Cookie]

IMO GEM+ is a must also for the base game, as it makes the noLetterbox and head-movement patch available!
If you want to attract any contemporary simracer, you have to show the best possible screen.

[Stefan Roess]

Any news on this? For a 2017 demo?

[Michkov]

I should get back on this, sorry real life got me distracted.

[Stefan Roess]

Michkov, on Dec 28 2016 - 09:07 AM, said:

I should get back on this, sorry real life got me distracted.

Real life is always first.

Edited by Stefan Roess, Dec 28 2016 - 05:01 PM.

[MECH]

I know what a life is but what the heck is "real" ?

[Gartner]

MECH, on Dec 29 2016 - 12:21 AM, said:

I know what a life is but what the heck is "real" ?

GPL is real.

[Stefan Roess]

Seeing Gui`s efforts on Steam on setting up a Community for GPL and NR2003 & GTP mod, this idea came into my mind...

How about trying to get GPL at the Steam store to buy and download?
Maybe it would be worth trying to contact the company that owns the GPL rights for selling?
Which company is that today? Does anyone know?

Edited by Stefan Roess, Feb 08 2017 - 07:22 AM.

[John Woods]

Yes.
It is no company that has rights.

Sierra gave up all rights in 2006.
Check with US Patent and Trademark Office website to confirm.

GPL is officially "dead" and that means, by USPTO definition, "available to the public."

Real and dead.


Also why no one "legit" wants to sell it, because they can't get a license to distribute, because no one owns it since its passing,

Edited by John Woods, Feb 08 2017 - 12:49 PM.

[Pedro]

John Woods, on Feb 08 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

GPL is officially "dead."

Long live GPL    

[Stefan Roess]

John Woods, on Feb 08 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

Yes.
It is no company that has rights.

Sierra gave up all rights in 2006.
Check with US Patent and Trademark Office website to confirm.

GPL is officially "dead" and that means, by USPTO definition, "available to the public."

Real and dead.


Also why no one "legit" wants to sell it, because they can't get a license to distribute, because no one owns it since its passing,

So that means we would not get into legal trouble to post a full copy of GPL?
Can anyone confirm this for sure, please?

---------------

Any news/ progress on the new demo?

Edited by Stefan Roess, Feb 02 2018 - 04:56 AM.

[Michkov]

Stefan Roess, on Feb 02 2018 - 04:55 AM, said:

John Woods, on Feb 08 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

Yes.
It is no company that has rights.

Sierra gave up all rights in 2006.
Check with US Patent and Trademark Office website to confirm.

GPL is officially "dead" and that means, by USPTO definition, "available to the public."

Real and dead.


Also why no one "legit" wants to sell it, because they can't get a license to distribute, because no one owns it since its passing,

So that means we would not get into legal trouble to post a full copy of GPL?
Can anyone confirm this for sure, please?

---------------

Any news/ progress on the new demo?

I'm slowly making my way through the GPL install picking out possible updates. Currently I'm somewhere in GPL\sounds

[paul skingley]

I would use 65mod as the default game in a future "demo"
Easier to drive for a newbie.

They can try 67 after a couple of years on 65


Paul

[Pete Gaimari]

Give them the 67 historical V2 mod. That's easy enough to drive. The 65 cars have no power, way too much grip, and are boring.

[Stefan Roess]

How about 2018?!

[grizz]

hi Stefan, I agree.

[SV3000]

Hi, the problem seems more about what content most people agreed to include in the demo, but making an undated demo is rather simple. I decide to write a guide list on how to make a basic demo update below, if anyone interested in helping make a new demo.

Q: How do you know those steps work with demo? A: been built up fresh GPL installation for years on demo version alone.
Q: Difference between CD full version and demo? A: only 10 tracks and game video are missing, some version with monza some with watkins, this guide 100% works on CD version too.
-------------------------------------
1. Get 1998 original Papyrus demo, install it somewhere.
(Q: Why 1998 original demo? A: To ensure that demo is as clean as possible to receive new updates of recent years without any conflict or unwanted/outdated files)

2. Download GPL_v1.2.0.2(US)all-in-one_2.3_patch.exe from ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...?showtopic=2621 ), install it, when asked GPL location, point it to your demo folder. (don't restart computer when the installer asked, also this patch comes with already updated gpl.exe, so it shouldn't matter which demo version you have got.)

3. Download Nigel's New Rasterizers from ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...?showtopic=3727 ), unzip it, run gplrast_v2.5.exe and install it to your demo folder.

4. Go to your demo folder and find app.ini and open it with notepad, change rd3d7v2.dll to roglv2.dll and save.
(Q: Why use opengl over d3d7 for default? A: d3d7 is more likely to cause problem than opengl from my experience, such as bad frame rate or game crash etc.)

5. This step must be done to proceed further. Go to your demo folder and run gpl.exe, then create a new driver name, calibrate and assign contol, then exit game.
(Important note: Never ever delete players folder in your GPL demo folder, or else the next time you run GPL you will be forever stuck on the driver creation screen with Unable to save player information error.)

6. If you never installed GEM+ (otherwise skip this step, but make sure you have latest version 2.5.0.32 installed), download GEM+ from ( https://gem.autosims.../downloads.html ), install it (preferably to a non-system folder).
(Important note: if you have Windows Locale set on Asia language such as Chinese/Japanese, make sure to switch it to English, or your GEM+ will hang/crash/bug, details see here https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...showtopic=12448 , this is most common for people using Asia language version of Windows, or people who requires Asia Locale setting to run daily application.)

7. Download GPL__67_PATCH.zip from ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...?showtopic=4875 ), unzip it, run 1967_PATCH_v1.3_Setup.exe, point GPL location to your demo folder.

8. Start GEM+, click Installs button at top-left, click Add, find your demo folder and select gpl.exe, click OK. Then select gpl.exe path from dropdown list beside Installs button. Last, hit Green Flag button (or Red Flag) to create gplc67.exe

And now, we have a GPL demo with latest patches (v1.2.0.2 for gpl.exe, 67 patch v1.3 for gplc67.exe), they can be run as standalone without GEM+. All cars/tracks/sounds are untouched (original flavor ). Next step will be adding extra mods and patches depends on preference.
-------------------------------------
Some notable patches and mods, like others mentioned, are:
lee's No Letterbox Patch ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...showtopic=11015 ), Tire Pressure Bug Fix, and other lee's great patches.
GPLshift V0.7.9.0 ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...?showtopic=5949 )
Pribluda Version 1.1.2.1 ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...?showtopic=5835 )
4Gb Patch ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...?showtopic=9957 )

All GPLEA's 67 car updates and various texture mods from others.
'67 Complete Soundset ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...?showtopic=8325 )
1967 Historical Gloves Set ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...?showtopic=9767 )

GPL-67 Historical Mod ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...p?showforum=186 )

Original Papyrus track updates:
https://wiki.grandpri...ates_for_Tracks
Monza Dat Addon ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...?showtopic=2803 )
Watkins Glen In Fall ( https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...p?showtopic=573 )

And some of the great recent tracks like SPA67.
-------------------------------------
All those patches and mods, once patched and activated mod in GEM+, can be run via generated corresponding exe as standalone without GEM+. Just zip it and it's ready for distribution!

Also about community track selection, I think it will be good to provide them as an extra trackpack, just pack tracks in a zip with season.ini. To install, just unzip and override into demo folder.

Let me know if there's any error in the guide, thanks.

Edited by SV3000, Sep 08 2018 - 04:48 AM.

[Michkov]

This is how you get a lightweight working GPL install of the latest spec. It would be the minimum required for a demo. What it doesn't do is show off what the program can do. I'd love to have an installer that does the above steps, having had to install GPL to latest spec via instant messenger several times now.

[SV3000]

IMO, provide latest "lightweight working GPL demo" as a good/starting base is enough (plus a quick start guide as Michkov mentioned), then depends on what most experienced GPLers agreed to include those must have core features (necessary update to visual/sound/gameplay).

All the other functions and extra features may be provided as addons (with premissions and documents), either through complicated and scripted All-in-one installer (which is a lot work and concerns). Or just ZIP those pre-installed files as separated addons, and let end-user unzip/override to game folder, which is simple and easy to make and maintain, and if there's any problem (like premission issue ) just replace or remove. Even GEM+ patches/mods can be pre-generated as "exe" and zip-saved for later quick swap, end-user isn't required to install/know GEM+ at all.

Too many choices/options is unnecessary, and people have different preference (some well-formatted basic helping documents/checklist is better, which already exist). In the end new players will learn how to install GEM+/MODS/TRACKS on their own, no need to overthink.

Edit:
I can't resist to add, and sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, since Michkov's detailed checklist on page 8 is looking good enough as a guideline (thanks to Michkov and Stefan and others who still trying to push this forward with their limited time), and there were already many constructive thoughts, but nothing progressed in the past 2 years (I'm pretty sure there are more than enough experienced players here who can handle the task), is it because lack of approval from community (if so then please make a poll or something to move this forward), or legal issues (if so then please someone make a statement and we stop here right now), or simply because not many care..........

Edited by SV3000, Sep 09 2018 - 07:26 PM.

[ginetto]

If there are no legal issues involved, I would like to see this blossom.