Paris Gp Addition
#1
Posted Feb 01 2012 - 05:36 PM
I had some time available. I thought I could just do a quickie "whip 'em into shape", some lp's and a few track.ini tweaks. Ha ha ha ha ha.
Hundreds of laps, a little centerline rebuild, a few wall nudges, surface designations changes, and a myriad of track.ini entries later, we have some raceable ai.
Only Cup, CTS and PTA have been done.
I tried GTP, but the track exhibits the "jumping cars syndrome" and I abandoned that effort. (I don't have gns installed.)
About the release:
The track readme, AGREEMENT OF USE, carries the usual provisions, "This track cannot be modifed without written consent of the original author... Pieces of this track (not including the .ptf file) may be extracted...". Normally this would end any interest I would have about "fixing" things, but this is such a nice track I thought I'd try and contact the creator, Glapa Michel, and get some approval. The track has previously been approved for conversion to other platforms. Alas, I wasn't able to get in contact with him or with Glapa Sylvain. I even tried a couple of the guys who had converted the track to see if they had more recent knowledge of their whereabouts, but no luck.
Again, with most other tracks, I would have dropped it.
However, this track is really nice and it's a shame it can't be enjoyed to its fullest offline, so I'm going out on a limb and putting it out anyway. I have tried to maintain the integrity of his layout while allowing for maximum ai raceabilty.
*** You need to download the original track, this addition is only an addon. ***
Since I'm already out on a limb, and it's not directly available from the author, I'm posting the original track download as well. (The original zip file, downloaded 10-6-2004).
Thank you Glapa Michel for this wonderful track.
paris addition.7z 458.85K 484 downloads
Original download page
paris.zip 13.72MB 489 downloads
4 wide through the Chicane
Hope you enjoy it.
fortine_oo
#2
Posted Feb 01 2012 - 07:13 PM
#3
Posted Feb 02 2012 - 05:00 AM
#5
Posted Feb 02 2012 - 08:24 AM
#6
Posted Feb 06 2012 - 03:44 AM
I was able to cure the track of the gtp "jumping cars syndrome".
I'm working on gtp ai now.
#7
Posted Feb 08 2012 - 04:00 AM
fortine_oo, on Feb 06 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:
I was able to cure the track of the gtp "jumping cars syndrome".
I'm working on gtp ai now.
Someway to the contrary of your GTP AI remarks I have been enjoying this Track for years driving the GTP mod.
And you are right. The graphics are pretty awesome and the layout is very challenging for a city track.
Driving with the GTP AIs on this track demand that you get to know their peculiarities somewhat.
In a way like real drivers. But even then you are right you will garanteed be rearended and pushed by them on certain points of the track.
So I will be soooo much looking forward to any bettering of the AI behaviour on this track.
Hope you fulfill this work.
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EDIT:
For those of you who allready have the orig Paris track installed but wants to try the adon´ed version out without deleting the old is here a short advice to be able to race them both.
It is easy enough to rename NR2003 track folders if you keep the lengt of the new name exactly the same as the orig one.
1. Rename the new folder with the Paris + adon inside paris>pari2
2. Rename the following files:
paris.cam>pari2.cam
paris.dat>pari2.dat
paris.ptf>pari2.ptf
3. Open pari2.dat with a hexeditor and rename/replace: paris.cam>pari2.cam, paris.ptf>pari2.ptf
4. Open track.ini with notepad and rename/replace: track_name = Grand Prix de Paris>Grand Prix de Pari2, track_name_short = Paris GP>Pari2 GP
Now you can have the two tracks Paris/Pari2 beside each other in your NR2003 install.
No sweat:-)
Edited by BrunoB, Feb 08 2012 - 12:56 PM.
#8
Posted Feb 08 2012 - 11:40 AM
BrunoB, on Feb 08 2012 - 04:00 AM, said:
BrunoB
Are you saying the ai don't exhibit the "jumping cars syndrome" (for you)?
I even tried the "fix", Paris Street Track (post #18), didn't help at all.
Edited by fortine_oo, Feb 08 2012 - 11:41 AM.
#9
Posted Feb 08 2012 - 01:14 PM
As I recall my AI´s are only playing cangaroos on the absolute last part of the track (to the right of the water spray) just before the final lefthander.
But they only does it if they have an accident!
To the best of my knowledge this cangaroo behaviour has something to do with the grip level. Lowering it will spoil most of their fun:-)
But remember that part of this behaviour is also an inbuild "feature" so the game can get the AI cars out of trouble when they have been pushed into a position their logic cannot drive/move normal out of.
Just checked the 2 griplevels I use. But I think they are very close to the orig levels.
[ track_gtp ]
track_asphalt_grip = 1.05
track_concrete_grip = 0.80
--------------------------
EDIT
I just checked JanKysters track.ini from post 18 (superficial:-)
I dont think he has changed the grip values I mentioned so I dont believe his fix fixes much;-)
Edited by BrunoB, Feb 08 2012 - 01:23 PM.
#10
Posted Feb 08 2012 - 10:28 PM
BrunoB, on Feb 08 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:
As I recall my AI´s are only playing cangaroos on the absolute last part of the track (to the right of the water spray) just before the final lefthander.
But they only does it if they have an accident!
To the best of my knowledge this cangaroo behaviour has something to do with the grip level. Lowering it will spoil most of their fun:-)
But remember that part of this behaviour is also an inbuild "feature" so the game can get the AI cars out of trouble when they have been pushed into a position their logic cannot drive/move normal out of.
Just checked the 2 griplevels I use. But I think they are very close to the orig levels.
[ track_gtp ]
track_asphalt_grip = 1.05
track_concrete_grip = 0.80
--------------------------
EDIT
I just checked JanKysters track.ini from post 18 (superficial:-)
I dont think he has changed the grip values I mentioned so I dont believe his fix fixes much;-)
BrunoB
Those grip values you've shown are the original [ track ] (cup) values. There was no support for GTP, so if you didn't add [ track_gtp ] and [ ai_track_gtp ] sections, you would have been running with the cup values.
The currently available "addition" (update) does not work for GTP.
Just my experience, whenever I've encountered jumping ai, it happens anywhere on the track, not just a specific section. [Although, one of the gtp versions of Paris I was trying, the ai were fine on the starting grid, but as they got onto the short straight before the Esses, the pace car went spinning down the track and the ai began jumping. See below for more weirdness.]
------------------------------------
re GTP "jumping cars syndrome":
This phenomenon has been widely attributed to high(er) grip values. While high(er) grip values "may" exacerbate the effect, grip is not the source of the trouble.
[I have noticed a penchant for pta ai to be a little jumpy at some tracks where the ai is more jumpy on contact than usual. ???... correlation?... who knows.]
I have yet to get any positive results from any of the so-called fixes that have been touted.
The only bona fide fix has been lowering ai_line_modifier = 0.60 (or less), coupled with a host of over-the-top values for the other ai parameters to get the ai back up to speed. This method still retains ai jumping on contact, just not sky-high bouncing. However, the way the ai run is so compromised that it's not like a real driver, which, for me, sucks the fun out of it.
I've been searching for the source ever since afdelta1long was released. I really like this track and it would be a blast to be able to race the GTP ai there.
My suspicion is it's the altered exe, gtp physics, coupled with the way the track is built. Whether it's a segment in general, section property or placement, tso, X-section, a combination of any of these, I haven't been able to determine. I have a afdelta1long track with all the 3do's deleted (and who knows what else) that stops the jumping altogether, but I haven't messed with it for a while, so I don't remember if I reached any conclusions, but I haven't found the exact source.
I can only deal with that stuff for so long before it aggravates me enough to stop.
------------------------------------
I'll edit this a little later and update where I'm at.
I've run into some extenuating circumstances that I've never encountered before. I'm looking for a way to adapt the changes needed.
#11
Posted Feb 09 2012 - 03:10 AM
BrunoB, on Feb 08 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:
[ track_gtp ]
track_asphalt_grip = 1.05
track_concrete_grip = 0.80
And I mention that these grip values "are very close to the orig levels":-)
Im not cheating when I says that "my" Paris AIs plays only cangaroo
1. when they get into a crash
2. or when they get out of their ideal line at the single part of the track I described.
Maybe I should add that I drive with my BrunoB GTP AI-Hacks v.1.1 to get the AI to behave a bit more civilised.
But Im not saying these hacks is a cangaroo cure:-)
fortine_oo, on Feb 08 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:
If you want it I can post/mail my custom track.ini with all the values I have changed.
Or I could post a replay where you can see how nice "my" AIs are behavioring:-)
Edited by BrunoB, Feb 09 2012 - 03:11 AM.
#12
Posted Feb 09 2012 - 12:01 PM
Its taken from a french cartoon series with Michel Vaillant made by Jean Graton.
And no. 42 in the series is "300 À L'heure Dans Paris" / 300 one hour in Paris
Taken directly from the cartoon is this track map.
Recognise it?
#13
Posted Feb 09 2012 - 02:21 PM
Bad: You are perfectly right. Paris with your adon is undriveable in the GTP mod for a human driver.
Some parts has become like ice and there is some crazy front tyre temps. And even worse is that I have never seen so much AI cangarooing. They start allready in the pit and often stays up like a helicopter.
Good: I started my orig Paris track up just to compare.
And this track is even better than I could recall (and have argued in my posts above)!
For the human driver there is only a kind of short "ice" issue from about 50m before the finish line to the line. Thats all.
And you could argue that this is not really a bug. Because its probably the trackcreator who try to simulate the socalled Parisian bricks (french: pave) on the tracksurface.
And the AIs is even better than I have said. No cangaroo if you dont drive into them. And as I said its only if you drive into them in the esses(is that the name?)
So Im sorry to say that I have deleted your adon again.
If you want to check then I have made a 2 laps replay shoving me and 15 AIs on the track. Very wellbehaving:-) The replay is about 5.5Mb
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