63 replies to this topic

[twinpotter]

Just reinstalled gpl after some problems and I am thinking of trying the 60fps patch. Can I use it for original game 67 and any other mods.
Am I correct in reading that it is ok for 65,66,67 and 69.What about 69x,sports car,f2,and canam.

Thanks for any advice- TP

[Art-J]

If I recall correctly at least three versions of 60fps patch have been released so far. First ones were built and tested with early mods, so they didn't work quite right when later ones (69Xtra, CanAm etc.) were released. Fortunately Petteri kept working on upgraded versions, so at the moment every single mod should be functioning with one patch revision or another (not sure about Stratos and Thundercars, 'cause they're the only ones I don't have installed on my rig).

Latest patches are called "60fpsAIv1" and "60fpsv2NewMod" I believe. You can have both installed and tick/untick any of them in GEM (just like carsound patch) whenever you like. Obviously GEM remembers which patch version You decided to use with any particular mod, so You have to test and set them up only once.

Cheers.

Edited by Art-J, May 05 2014 - 08:37 AM.

[jgf]

I'm using the 60fpsv2NewMod and AI still has issues;  they're insanely slow in racing but, oddly, not in practice.

[Saiph]

The three versions of the 60fps patch (from oldest to latest) are called:

60fpsv1
60fpsv2
60fpsv2newmod

The reason that Brrr (Petteri) released several versions is that changing the screen display rate also affects a lot of the basic timing functions inside GPL, and later versions attempted to correct some problems which are caused by this change. The most noticeable thing that's affected is the behaviour of the AI cars. Their decision-making processes, and their judgements of distance and speed are changed drastically when the framerate is changed, and unfortunately in most cases this means that the AI cars perform quite erratically with the 60fps patch. The latest "newmod" version fixes a lot of the problems, but it's still not perfect.

Personally, I don't drive against the AI very much, so these problems don't bother me. I really enjoy the extra smoothness that 60fps can give when I'm hotlapping, so I use it all the time.

Here's a list of the GPL mods, and which version of the patch you should tick in GEM to avoid problems:

'65 mod: 60fpsv2newmod
'66 mod: 60fpsv2newmod
Original '67 cars: 60fpsv2newmod
'67 F2 mod: 60fpsv2newmod
'67 GT/Sports: 60fpsv1
'69 mod: 60fpsv2newmod
'69 extra mod: 60fpsv1
'71 Can-Am: 60fpsv1
Stratos: 60fpsv2
Thundercars: 60fpsv2

Hope that helps.

Edited by Saiph, May 05 2014 - 09:27 AM.

[twinpotter]

Have just installed the 60fpsv2NewMod so going to experiment in a 67 race.In process of reinstalling other mods so that was the reason for my question.
By the way what are (if any) the benefits of the patch for car sound and what does it do exactly??

Thanks guys so far- TP



Thanks Saiph for the list.Great help

Edited by twinpotter, May 05 2014 - 09:29 AM.

[Saiph]

As far as I'm aware, 60fps doesn't affect sound at all.

[Cookie]

If you want to use 60fps offline with AI's take the 60fpsV1ai version! This works with 67s too!

GT and 69X are the mods that only run in V1

The V2newmod is to be used for online use as it prevents the 36fps clients from joining!!!

[Art-J]

twinpotter, on May 05 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

By the way what are (if any) the benefits of the patch for car sound and what does it do exactly??

I believe it's the patch from early 2000s, which unpacked original sound.dat archive and allowed GPLers to replace 7 default sound samples with new ones. Nothing you should be bothered about, unless you reinstall the game from original '98 CD, but who does it nowadays?

Cheers.

[sky]

I believe there's a fourth version that Michel posted ages ago.
60fpsv1
60fpsv2
60fpsaiv1
60fpsv2newmod

I'm not sure if my settings are still spot on since I messed up my players recently. For the '67 F1 (according to GEM), I'm using 60fpsv1, for the '67 GTs I'm using 60fpsaiv1, for other mods currently in prod I'm using 60fpsv2newmod.

[twinpotter]

Just a few more questions.Bit of an idiots guide required

Will there be and is there need for another patch or update for new and newer mods to come.
What are the differences between all the present patches or is it just natural development or just too many differences to list.
Finally does each of the patches have a significant performance hit or can newer pc's handle the patch ok.

PS: Thanks guys for all the info so far.Very interesting and very valuable info.I know this subject as been covered numerous times but I think it is useful for newbies and to remind ourselves of the  details of these patches from time to time.


  TP

[Saiph]

Cookie, on May 05 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

If you want to use 60fps offline with AI's take the 60fpsV1ai version! This works with 67s too!
.......

sky, on May 05 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

I believe there's a fourth version that Michel posted ages ago.
60fpsv1
60fpsv2
60fpsaiv1
60fpsv2newmod
..........

Guys, 60fpsaiv1 was superceded by 60fpsv2, see Brrs post https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...402.
"UPDATE: the 60fpsv2 patch makes AI available as well, so its better to upgrade to that:"

As far as I am aware, Brr (Petteri) stopped working on the 60fps patch some time ago, and has not updated it for newer mods. Not sure if he's still a regular member of the community here. You could always try a PM to him to try to get info from the original source. I don't think there will be new versions of the patch for future mods.

For any new mods which are released, we will need to test each 60fps patch in turn to see which version can be used (if any). New mods usually have very different structures from older ones, so it can't be guaranteed that 60fps will work with them. Even if a new mod can be made to run with 60fps for solo driving, there's no guarantee that the AI cars will drive properly, because the physics will probably be different.

The main reason that there are different versions of the 60fps patch are that the early ones simply concentrated on adjusting the GPL graphics engine to work at 60fps, instead of 36fps. Later versions tried to patch the AI and/or physics sections of the GPL exe to adjust the behaviour of the AI cars to compensate for the change in frame rates and the changes in timing. It should be noted that these adjustments to the AI were only done by working on the '67 cars. (I believe Petteri was working on the 60fps on his own, so it would have been too complex and time-consuming to create a custom version for each mod.) If other mods appear to work better with the later patches, then that's mainly luck. Each player has to experiment with the patches and see which version works best for them, there are no hard-and-fast rules.

Creating the patch was very difficult, and Petteri always said that the 60fps patch was very experimental. There is some seriously complicated hacking going on underneath the bonnet (hood) of the patch, and only patching geniuses like Petteri can properly understand the details!

The 60fps patch does have a performance hit, this is one reason I kept away from it when it was first released because my PC at that time couldn't handle it. However, my current PC is four years old, (AMD Athlon II X2 245 dual-core 2.9GHz, nVidia GT240 512MB, 2GB RAM, Win XP Pro sp3) and it can handle 60fps with no trouble in testing mode. I get a bit of stuttering at the back of most grids, but this fades away over the first half-lap as the cars spread out. A lot of people on SRMZ have better PCs than me, and they report a solid 60fps, even at the back of a full grid.

Edited by Saiph, May 05 2014 - 01:35 PM.

[mcmirande]

Thanks Saiph for the patch version-mod "alignment". It's very useful
.

[twinpotter]

Thanks once again Saiph for your info and clarification!!

Much obliged  

[jgf]

twinpotter, on May 05 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

...
By the way what are (if any) the benefits of the patch for car sound and what does it do exactly??
...

If you refer to the carsound patch in GEM+, it is for patching the default GPL.exe to use unique sounds for each car.  If you're using one of the newer GPL installers it isn't necessary.

[M Needforspeed]

Real life and I can 't read all the interesting posts above, but you may want to have a look at this


https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...288

and here

https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...t=15#entry55014


Whatever your target,of all the patches version released,  60fpsaiv1 seems the way to go for.

You can tweak the AI files for all mods, and you don't get the ugly look of unrealistic ride heights

Edited by M Needforspeed, May 05 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[jgf]

This confusing array of 60fps patches, with one working for some mods but not others, one may have functioning AI in these mods but not those, etc., is what kept me from using them, except in testing mode.

FWIW, from my understanding of the LP files, they are based on one record for each "tick" (36 per second ...thus the game's 36fps default limit?) longitudinally around the track;  I assume allowing 60fps has the game running at 60 "ticks" thus confusing the AI.  Would creating new LP files based on 60 ticks alleviate this problem?  Or would it not work at all?  If it did work, it would probably entail laborious manual editing of at least each race.lp.

I've been running the '65 cars lately and, with the newmod patch enabled, thought it odd that in practice the AI run normal speeds and only slow in the race itself - at Laguna I'm 8th in practice, about 8 seconds behind the leader, but will lap the field in a 12 lap race;  disable the patch and the AI run similar times in practice and race.

[Saiph]

M Needforspeed, on May 05 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

Real life and I can 't read all the interesting posts above, but you may want to have a look at this
https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...288 and here https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...t=15#entry55014
Whatever your target,of all the patches version released,  60fpsaiv1 seems the way to go for.
You can tweak the AI files for all mods, and you don't get the ugly look of unrealistic ride heights

That's interesting. I couldn't remember hearing about 60fpsaiv1 before, I just checked back in the patch thread to find Petteri's comment about it. But as I've said before, my main experience is with solo testing, so if you've found that it's better for racing against the AI then I bow to your greater experience in that area.

[Alan Davies]

I have not used the 60FPS patches before as I race mostly against he ai; but having seen in the thread about the 60fpsaiv1 I gave it a try.
Although the frame rates do not improve (using Fraps - about 30 ish) it does seem smoother though.  The ai are slow and trying to speed them up become VERY aggressive.

[dbell84]

jgf, on May 05 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

This confusing array of 60fps patches, with one working for some mods but not others, one may have functioning AI in these mods but not those, etc., is what kept me from using them, except in testing mode.

FWIW, from my understanding of the LP files, they are based on one record for each "tick" (36 per second ...thus the game's 36fps default limit?) longitudinally around the track;  I assume allowing 60fps has the game running at 60 "ticks" thus confusing the AI.  Would creating new LP files based on 60 ticks alleviate this problem?  Or would it not work at all?  If it did work, it would probably entail laborious manual editing of at least each race.lp.

I've been running the '65 cars lately and, with the newmod patch enabled, thought it odd that in practice the AI run normal speeds and only slow in the race itself - at Laguna I'm 8th in practice, about 8 seconds behind the leader, but will lap the field in a 12 lap race;  disable the patch and the AI run similar times in practice and race.

60fpsaiv1 will work with 67's or any mod, so remembering which one of the others works with what mod isn't necessary.  The only thing I'm not sure of with 60fpsaiv1 is if it works with online racing.  I think one of the others is needed for that.

[jgf]

I just tried the 60fpsaiv1 patch.  The AI were decidedly slower, changing no other settings I went from 8 seconds down in practice to leading by 3 seconds.  Speeding them up I tried again, was 5 seconds down in practice but still lapped the field in a 12 lap race.

It still seems to me the major effect of the 60fps patches is on the AI race performance, not their practice times.  But aren't both controlled by the same parameters?