112 replies to this topic

[Olaf Lehmann]

Pitstop_patch - it means my pitstop patch is the further development of dirt(wear)gear_patch. I recommend to use pitstop6+(dg) only. This is the released version. You find it here https://www.eolcreplay.de/download

It's correct mode INT SHORT creates no gear failure. But I must say I'm a hardliner - my favourite mode is INT LONG with gear failure.

At the moment I haven't the time for programming. Before the middle of SeptembreI can't do anything. Please ask the driver of our league before this time if they have really interest to use the patch.

BR Olaf

Edited by Olaf Lehmann, Aug 12 2015 - 04:00 PM.

[mcmirande]

Thanks Olaf!

We're starting a new season now until the end of the year. I'm asking to Mybroga drivers if they want to use the patch, and I'll have a reasonable survey in a couple of weeks. I'll let you know if they're enough interested in it.

Cheers, Marcos.

[Yngwie]

Firefox tells me eolcreplay is an attacking website ?

[Olaf Lehmann]

I think the website is save, but you can download the patch direct:
https://www.eolc.de/O...tstop63 (dg).7z

[Olaf Lehmann]

One another reason that this patch has not many fans seems to be the wear effect.
I have read in some posts: In the 60th there was no tire wear. This feature is absolutely unrealistic.
I think it’s correct. The real drivers in the 60th have feeling very sensible and they are driven so. But in GPL you can braking with blocking, smoking wheels more than one second and I see many drivers that do so. I can’t believe that a tire can suffer that. So in my sight eventually tire wear in gpl is more realistic than no wear…maybe.
And it brings much more variety in racing.

I think the patch without wear is not half so much interesting.

But because it seems there are many people against wear: It would be possible and very easy to create an alternative version without wear.

It means only:
-dirt effect
-flat tire in case of shiftR
-(selective) gear failure in case of shiftR
-repairing cars (and changing the flat tire) at the box after waiting time (in PRO MODE too)
-changing brake balance during driving


Is there any interest?

BR Olaf

[John Woods]

Have been very impressed with your work, Olaf, and urge you to continue without discouragement. After reading your comments searched a few Google pages and found this on Peter Windsor's site:

Quote

ALEC MASKELL is softly-spoken, in the Clark mould.  He was also a Dunlop tyre engineer who worked closely with Clark from 1960-65.  Very closely.  The two both came from farming backgrounds and instantly struck up a close friendship.  They’d go testing at Silverstone, find the day rained off, then retreat to the “Green Man” to talk about livestock and arable farming.  Maskell was also able to appreciate Clark’s genius first-hand.  “Our figures showed that most drivers wore some tyres quicker than others.  Jack Brabham used his rears more than he did his fronts.  The converse was true of Dan Gurney and John Surtees.  The astonishing thing about Jim was that his tyre wear was the same on all four corners of the car and that he used substantially less rubber than anyone else.  In other words, he seemed to use all four tyres equally.  Jim couldn’t explain why – and nor could we.  But the figures went some way towards describing his qualities."

So there should be no argument about whether tires degraded in the 60's. They did.

But for better drivers they degraded less. So those who whine about tire wear likely need to improve their skills when racing with a tire model that features wear, especially when everyone else on track is using the same model.

Not all GPLrs devote their fun to achieving the most possible historically accurate realism, however...which might be the basis of their laments.

Ignore them and enjoy yourself, as you should. Maybe read The Modder's Manifesto for some Lee200 support.

Here's the link to Windsor's article about Jim Clark: https://peterwindsor.com/2012/04/07/the-unforgettable-jim-clark/

Edited by John Woods, Dec 06 2015 - 06:59 AM.

[fajanko]

I would second John. Your patch is good as it is.

[Frank_Mueller]

I think a big reason can be: most of the very fast drivers will killing their tires with your fabulous patch, if they don't change their way to drive. If they are changing, they aren't longer faster than others. Why to give a advantage away?
Thats also the reason, i think, why NR2003/GTP wasn't successful outside of the ovals . . . .

[John Woods]

Makes sense to me.

While neither Clark nor Lotus engineers could figure out why his tire wear was so even, my best guess is he was able to keep the instant center of mass, (in proportion to lateral load/grip), well within the range of a suspension's capability, relying on confidence in his line to sustain the car's momentum thru a certain arc.

He was, as much as possible, always centered. Seems the evidence as I understand it leads to no other conclusion.

On the other hand, Brabham's rear was probably just too heavy, requiring a too stiff setup, Gurney and Surtees had bigtime understeer issues.

JMVHO, (questions and guesses).

Courage to maintain the theoretically certain line promotes winners and keeps the timid from the edge.

On the other hand, first finish then finish first.

A good friend of mine once took me on a ski-boat ride. At one point he sped toward a spillway that looked to me like the edge of an infinity pool. We were going way too fast for me.

While I was hopeful he was confident of the boat's capability, I had no idea, having only been in a speed boat a few times, and was wide-eyed open mouthed staring at tree tops beyond the all the air on the other side.

At what seemed like the last moment before disaster, he veered off, looked over at me, and started laughing with a big grin.

Edited by John Woods, Dec 07 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Pavel]

Olaf,
Your patch is impressive, I like it. But I prefere to remove in-car brake balance adjustment. Because someone (like in modern racing) can go as far as adjust brakes for every major turn. Also I think you should keep tire wear.

[Michkov]

I feel when talking about tire wear you have to make a distinction between 1.5l and 3l era. You got stories from the former where Clark used a single set of tyres for 3 or 4 races, while on the other side tyres get worn out over a single race distance. 67 Kyalami comes to mind, mostly due to an abrasive surface. By the end of the decade the tyres quickly get softer and switch to slicks in 70 or 71. So you have to be very careful getting information from reports on tyre wear as the magnitude changed rather quickly over the time GPL is set.

That said, I'd love to have realistic tyre wear in GPL.

As for your patch Olaf, I would split it into separate mods so you can use each component on its own. Similar to how Lee has structured his recent patches.

[Robert Fleurke]

I remember we did a race at Groundhog with the dirtgear wear patch, it was very interesting actually. You could save the tires not pushing too much early race and then gain on others who had more wear and drop-off...still the fastest racers remain the fastest...only those with hotlapping tireburning style would suffer I think...

It's true some fast GPLers couldn't handle tirewear in NR2003, but the best could, like Greger Huttu. He still was the fastest, and also still had better tirewear than others.

You deserve to be commended you for your work Olaf. Once suggested in pre-season discussion at UKGPL to use this patch. We at least should try it in between seasons in test/funraces IMO, and see how others react to it.

Edited by Robert Fleurke, Dec 06 2015 - 05:37 PM.

[John Woods]

Michkov, on Dec 06 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

That said, I'd love to have realistic tyre wear in GPL.

As for your patch Olaf, I would split it into separate mods so you can use each component on its own. Similar to how Lee has structured his recent patches.

Not knowing anything about how to do it, agree separate mods for each Mod/car, (or approximation of range of difference between 55s and 69xtras, Can-Ams, GT's, Strata...36fps and 60fps, with capability to turn each feature on and off with the INI, D3Dv2 and OGL...

Guessing obviously that would be a lot of work?
(Just wishing wishing).


Not sure when driver-controlled brake bias began, or if realistically should be on any GPL car, but the real valve seems as primitive as a brake line, and like one in-cockpit offline/36fps just to make tweaking it easier.

[Roo]

I like your patch Olaf, it adds something extra, a little more realism, to the racing.
I found the tyre wear ok (can't remember what mod we raced) but difficult to remember it was going to happen after so many years of not having it

If I could ask Santa Olaf for anything this xmas it would be for each:
-dirt effect
-flat tire in case of shiftR
-(selective) gear failure in case of shiftR
-repairing cars (and changing the flat tire) at the box after waiting time (in PRO MODE too)
-changing brake balance during driving
-tyre wear (mod specific)

be in separate patches to be selected in gem.
brake bias is not for me, but the others, yes

[Olaf Lehmann]

Thank you very much for your reactions!

Quote

If I could ask Santa Olaf for anything this xmas it would be for each:
-dirt effect
-flat tire in case of shiftR
-(selective) gear failure in case of shiftR
-repairing cars (and changing the flat tire) at the box after waiting time (in PRO MODE too)
-changing brake balance during driving
-tyre wear (mod specific)
be in separate patches to be selected in gem.
brake bias is not for me, but the others, yes  

Quote

As for your patch Olaf, I would split it into separate mods so you can use each component on its own.

I have a problem with it: I’m a little bit distrusted. The patch is made for online races/online leagues.It have a restriction. Joining to a patched server is impossible with a normal gpl.exe. So all participants can be sure that no one drive without anything like tire wear and have an advantage.
If I split the patch in pieces anyone could join to the server with only one component (maybe only dirt or wear effect). Maybe anyone forget to choice dirt effect, so he drives without dirt effect. I think it would be very chaotic.
And I see no solution for this.
But I use the gpl modes to switch on/off components: Gear failure only in mode INT LONG, No repairing of the car in mode grand prix.

Quote

Your patch is impressive, I like it. But I prefere to remove in-car brake balance adjustment. Because someone (like in modern racing) can go as far as adjust brakes for every major turn. Also I think you should keep tire wear.

I try to explain why the in car brake adjustment came into the patch. As I began to work on the patch it wasn’t  planed.
As I tested the tire wear I found it on some tracks hard to drive with the different balance of the car.
I knew a lot of drivers in my league drive in other leagues too. So they drive four official races in two weeks. And they haven’t the time to practice more than a few laps. So I would give these people a chance to improve their balance during the race.
Personally I use the brake adjustment, but only one or two times during a race. If I would do it more times I would loose the control for the car and crash. Maybe someone aliens can do it, but reasoned by the wear effect their grip already in the second lap starts to decelerate. I think there is no really advantage.
But if I create an alternative patch without wear (at the moment I think I don’t it) I will remove the brake balance adjustment. Thanks for the hint.

Quote

Not knowing anything about how to do it, agree separate mods for each Mod/car, (or approximation of range of difference between 55s and 69xtras, Can-Ams, GT's, Strata...

I can’t do the adjustment for MODs allone. It’s too much to me.
My focus was only on the original 67th.
But if there are some people that can give exactly informations like, in example: In 65er MOD the wear effect should be only 50% maybe I can adjust the patch.

BR Olaf

At the end a request to forum admins. I can’t edit my earlier posts. Could anyone edit my first post and set a link to the released version of the patch (pitstop63+(dg) please? You find the link in post 49.

Edited by Olaf Lehmann, Dec 09 2015 - 08:11 AM.