276 replies to this topic

[JohnnyAck]

I agree with a better monaco chicane over the stock one. If I get a good run out of the tunnel,I go thru the stock chicane at 147-151 mph, and that's just silly.

[M Needforspeed]

davef, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

where can one see the Monaco67 movie you have been talking about?

  

  


  This is only a short extract of a longer movie I must find on another HDD .We see Bandini car and others coming out from the chicane in the laps before his crash.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 09 2012 - 03:38 PM.

[M Needforspeed]

JohnnyAck, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

I agree with a better monaco chicane over the stock one. If I get a good run out of the tunnel,I go thru the stock chicane at 147-151 mph, and that's just silly.

And in Monacane, what is your speed ??

[M Needforspeed]

reposted with a line where the cars by looking at upper wishbones are under braking, just before accelerating again, to get the max speed  at the entrance of Tabac corner

Attached Files

•  LE SPORT AUTOMOBILE Fraichard Monaco 67 Hulme Bandini Stewart Surtees Gurney Bruce McLaren Clark chicane.jpg   296.31K   108 downloads

[Pavel]

This video has better quality


How you can run through this 'gate' without braking? Don't forget car was rolling down after the Tunnel. So it was possible to slow down it only with brakes.

Attached Files

•  monaco36_320_hon.jpg   54.35K   75 downloads

[M Needforspeed]

Different view from the usual shots seen from the back, this one from the 1967 Ferrari Annuario. The driver has room to accelerate again before he  crosses the left apex.

Attached Files

•  FERRARI ANNUARIO 67 Lorenzo Bandini Ferrari 312 36 V and John Surtees Honda RA 273 V 12 Bruce Mc Laren Monaco GP 67.jpg   502.92K   108 downloads

[Pavel]

M Needforspeed, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

reposted with a line where the cars by looking at upper wishbones are under braking, just before accelerating again, to get the max speed  at the entrance of Tabac corner

It seems like Bandini had good line entering the chicane and he didn't brake too hard. Hulme missed left apex and has to brake hard. Stewart also has to brake hard. Surtees like Bandini had good line too. But Gurney behind has to brake hard. And he was still far from chicane. So Surtees maybe slowed too.

Edited by Pavel, Mar 09 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[M Needforspeed]

Pavel, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

M Needforspeed, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

reposted with a line where the cars by looking at upper wishbones are under braking, just before accelerating again, to get the max speed  at the entrance of Tabac corner

It seems like Bandini had good line entering the chicane and he didn't brake too hard. Hulme missed left apex and has to brake hard. Stewart also has to brake hard. Surtees like Bandini had good line too. But Gurney behind has to brake hard. And he was still far from chicane. So Surtees maybe slowed too.

after snd thinking, in my opinion you are right Pavel .Taking account of the speed they got well after the tunnel, there must have been a braking zone, but well before the chicane, probably where I draw the black line

another perspective of the racing line of a car alone, here

it depended a lot on a tiny perfect racing line .If the driver got it, he could accelerate again before crossing the two apexes, as he cld see how to place the car on the straigth line following.

Attached Files

•  AEROGI Stewart BRM P 261 V 8 Chicane Monaco GP 1967.jpg   293.3K   94 downloads
•  Jackie Stewart BRM P 83 practice Chicane Monaco 67 .jpg   635.86K   90 downloads

Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 09 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[Pavel]

If GPL car physics in 66 mod is right then braking over crest can destabilized the car easely. In addition road was curved there. So depending on car weight and carring speed braking zones varied too much from car to car, I think.

And yes, driver have to pointed car right there. Cause line through chicane was narrow. But I think they started accelerate after first apex.

Edited by Pavel, Mar 09 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[davef]

On board lap from "Grand Prix" movie showing it in 1966 is a good thing to watch
also   
it's on youtube-maybe someone can post it as I am not sure how

Edited by davef, Mar 09 2012 - 05:07 PM.

[tooncheesef1]

[davef]

Yes Tooncheese that's the one!Thanks.

(You will have to click on the text above the video to watch.)

Edited by davef, Mar 09 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[JohnnyAck]

M Needforspeed, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

JohnnyAck, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

I agree with a better monaco chicane over the stock one. If I get a good run out of the tunnel,I go thru the stock chicane at 147-151 mph, and that's just silly.

And in Monacane, what is your speed ??

Thats a very good question:) Ive never hotlapped monacane hard enough and broken down a replay, so you have given me something to do now. I will return with eagle results soon, as that was my speeds I quoted. An idea I like to still harbor, is to eventually have a really nice accurate 67 trackset with all the updates and goodies, and then maybe some league running with all the new stuff, for a better,realistic season experience. Server will be in igor about 10-15 min.

Edited by JohnnyAck, Mar 09 2012 - 06:58 PM.

[JohnnyAck]

Found out along with being very fun, and different on entry to the next turn after it, I was up to 79mph at slowest spot in chicane, on a lap of 1:27.9 in eagle. most of the time I could stay in the 70 mph zone.

[M Needforspeed]

JohnnyAck, on Mar 09 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

Found out along with being very fun, and different on entry to the next turn after it, I was up to 79mph at slowest spot in chicane, on a lap of 1:27.9 in eagle. most of the time I could stay in the 70 mph zone.

   Johnny,

  Thks to have been so reactive, both of and on the track, it seems ! You are already in the Jack Brabham pole range

  Did you apply full throttle immediatly before entering the line passing through the apexes ? What gear when inside the chicane ?

  A sure thing is your speed is faster than the AI's, but that 's normal. They have always been reluctant to go fast on chicanes

  If you cld post a replay ? thks

Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 10 2012 - 04:34 AM.

[M Needforspeed]

Cheapracer, on Mar 09 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

I  also intentionally left a little of the corner of the haybale able to  be passed through to simulate "clipping" the edge of the haybale which  is realistically possible but also to allow people a bit of leway as to  not ruin races - I don't know about now but the GPL collision  programming was a bit dodgy back then.

Mark,



  thks for your answer; One remark is that you have seen it wasn 't an haybale, but a rounded advert in wood, probably. With tough bags strenghtening the structure. Car wld have moved, only by  a bare contact with the apex

  Anyway, even passing through the haybale, the degrees between apexes seems good

Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 14 2012 - 10:02 AM.

[M Needforspeed]

meanwhile, the real  thing shows there wld be good additions to put in the Monacane version, as the guardrail and the 50 meter sign.It wld help some of us to memorize their lift off/braking zone ( as they where also in the 67 event)    

I will try to get support from our fantastic track makers at the Repository, to see what can be done regarding real apexes objects, escape area, rails, signs ect...    

difficult to compare an ingame perspective, and a semi wide angle camera lens that was mounted by Frankhenheimer on the car nose front end, but GPL result isn 't bad, not bad at all, rather very good !! ( The pic and the capture have strictly the same L x l )

   a great thing rendered in Monacane is the driver cld see the right apex just on top of the left one, as on the movie, and quite from the same place


  The place is so trendy ....

Attached Files

•  Grand Prix movie chicane 66 50 meter sign .JPG   81.75K   238 downloads
•  CCM edited camera nose GPL Monacane chicane 1967 .JPG   222.37K   231 downloads

Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 12 2012 - 07:30 AM.

[davef]

M Needforspeed, on Mar 10 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

difficult to compare an ingame perspective, and a semi wide angle camera lens that was mounted by Frankhenheimer on the car nose front end, but GPL result isn 't bad, not bad at all, rather very good !! ( The pic and the capture have strictly the same L x l )

   a great thing rendered in Monacane is the driver cld see the right apex just on top of the left one, as on the film, and quite from the same place


  The place is so trendy ....

M Needforspeed-I believe Frankenheimer mounted the camera on the front of a GT-40
driven by Phil Hill!

[benzman]

M Needforspeed, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

reposted with a line where the cars by looking at upper wishbones are under braking, just before accelerating again, to get the max speed  at the entrance of Tabac corner

This picture shows a marshal holding out an 'oil' flag.  Seeing this may be causing the drivers to change their normal approach.  Perhaps.

[davef]

Hi Benzman-according to Motorsport article from Intothered site-this is
when Bandini was passed by both Hulme & Stewart,Clark at the back-just visible
thought a crash would happen and took the escape road,then had to backout
in last place.Brabham put the oil down on the 1st lap.Pictures taken
on 2nd lap.
maybe Bandini offline being cautious?
 LE%20SPORT%20AUTOMOBILE%20Fraichard%20Monaco%2067%20Hulme%20Bandini%20Stewart%20Surtees%20Gurney%20Bruce%20McLaren%20Clark%20chicane.jpg   295.7K   69 downloads  tumblr_lf4z34CedM1qaakzyo1_500.jpg   92.17K   61 downloads

Edited by davef, Mar 12 2012 - 07:43 AM.