753 replies to this topic

[Pavel]

Hallo,
Is there any hopes for new accurate representation of Spa track. This track is needed for all mods (except 69). Papy had made so many mistakes here. It's need to be improved.

[dangermouse]

There is one that has been in the making for many years. When it will be finished is unknown.....  

[miklkit]

I recognize many parts of that track, but there are some very big differences from what I am used to driving in GPL.

[Jhalli]

what happened to Spa rocks ? ,

i remember reading some topics on a RSC forum.

[Rudy Dingemans]

My guess is that some (team or persons) will have to ask John Basara for his files in order to finish it.

OR, re-convert another - more accurate - version from another sim; if one exists.

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank: -40)

Edited by Rudy Dingemans, Dec 19 2009 - 05:23 PM.

[Pavel]

I've heard that this files were losted because of computer problems, or maybe I'm mistaken.

[dangermouse]

Pavel, on Dec 21 2009, 08:34 AM, said:

I've heard that this files were losted because of computer problems, or maybe I'm mistaken.

No, John's files are not lost. It just needs for another trackmaker to become interested in them for the project to proceed.

[benzman]

Spa has always been one of my favourite tracks and it came as a bit of a surprise when I first heard that the Papy version was considered to be not very accurate by the GPL community.  Looking at the YouTube clip mentioned above it is apparent that Stavelot is quite different, being actually a sweep and a corner separated by a short straight, but the rest of the clip looks much as the game version looks, I think so anyway.

  So what is actually wrong with the Papy Spa?  The length?  The roadway width?  The overall shape?  The elevation changes?  The gradients?  The cambers?  Obviously the Papy version lacks much of the 'off track' scenery, the buildings and suchlike, but what else is wrong?

  I appreciate that track making is a long, complex, tedious and labour-intensive business, but the layout of Spa appears to still exist with only minor changes, such as a couple of added roundabouts, so it can be viewed easily on Google Earth and an accurate map as it was in the 1960s should probably not be too difficult to produce.  Would it be so difficult to make a new version, or tweak the Papy version?  Just interested.

[dangermouse]

benzman, on Dec 21 2009, 10:42 PM, said:

I appreciate that track making is a long, complex, tedious and labour-intensive business, but the layout of Spa appears to still exist with only minor changes, such as a couple of added roundabouts, so it can be viewed easily on Google Earth and an accurate map as it was in the 1960s should probably not be too difficult to produce.  Would it be so difficult to make a new version, or tweak the Papy version?  Just interested.

Try it, you'll find out.

[benzman]

dangermouse, on Dec 21 2009, 05:01 PM, said:

benzman, on Dec 21 2009, 10:42 PM, said:

I appreciate that track making is a long, complex, tedious and labour-intensive business, but the layout of Spa appears to still exist with only minor changes, such as a couple of added roundabouts, so it can be viewed easily on Google Earth and an accurate map as it was in the 1960s should probably not be too difficult to produce.  Would it be so difficult to make a new version, or tweak the Papy version?  Just interested.

Try it, you'll find out.

Sorry, Dangermouse.  Wasn't meaning to be flippant.  As an old FlightSim fan and having made the odd scenery file or two for that, I am well aware of the horrendous difficulty of track building in GPL in comparison to FlightSim.  I have nothing but admiration for track builders.

  However, my original question still stands.  What exactly is wrong with the Papy Spa?

[JASE]

Yeah, I'm no expert but I'd love to know what's so horribly wrong with the current Spa?

[Tato]

Never care about this before, but now I'm curious too: what's wrong in the original GPL track?
It's obvious that nowadays Spa is quite different from the '60 years track, so no idea about those layout mistakes.
That said, as you know a sim is not the real thing, but always an approximation (and GPL is a very good one, that's for sure imho); moreover, the original Papy tracks were designed more than 10 years ago, with different hardware and tools, so maybe we have to take this in account too.

[brr]

Tato, on Dec 22 2009, 11:07 AM, said:

Never care about this before, but now I'm curious too: what's wrong in the original GPL track?
It's obvious that nowadays Spa is quite different from the '60 years track, so no idea about those layout mistakes.
That said, as you know a sim is not the real thing, but always an approximation (and GPL is a very good one, that's for sure imho); moreover, the original Papy tracks were designed more than 10 years ago, with different hardware and tools, so maybe we have to take this in account too.

I don't know what hardware and tools have to do with discussing layout accuracy, as well as the revelation that a sim is not the real thing. Spa had some specific layout in, say, 1967. The same track in GPL has another layout. The question is whether these two match well enough. For me they do (have no idea about the real layout anyway), but if someone is motivated and able to make a new version, nothing wrong with that as long as its a new track instead of an update.

[Tato]

brr, on Dec 22 2009, 10:35 AM, said:

Spa had some specific layout in, say, 1967. The same track in GPL has another layout. The question is whether these two match well enough.

Thanks for reply, but I can understand this, even if I have no idea how to make a track (a point that increases my admiration for the skilled people that are able to do new tracks).
With my very poor english I've only asked what's wrong with the original Papyrus Spa, apart Stavelot, as everyone could see in the video and as benzman has already said; I've asked about this because nowadays Spa is quite different (as I've previously wrote), and I have no idea about the real layout for those years, as most of the people here around.

[Pavel]

Wrongest thing in Spa is L'Eau Rouge corner. Real corner was much deeper and slower. Papy made present corner configuration. Also Stavelot and La Source need to be improved. Track was more narrow than in sim which make some corners slower and more dangerouse. I think track width must be 1/2 of papy track. And track was very bumpy.