169 replies to this topic

[Hologram]

Burnsy865, on Oct 28 2011 - 12:31 AM, said:

Hologram, on Oct 27 2011 - 11:57 PM, said:

A couple of questions...
What exactly does this patch accomplish? Does it just allow for different interface pics.
Why won't it let me use any other car folder with the 67 carset.

I'm just reloading GPL after a 3year hiatus (became an rFactor addict) and am trying to do a complete up to date config with the 65's,67's & 69's.

Hi Hologram
. I would recommend you use the all in one installer that does all the patching for you (I think) The patch is needed to run the longer tracks such as Targa, not sure what you mean about using the other cars but here is a link to the thread about the installer.

https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...?showtopic=3076

If I have another set of cars in my car folder Gem won't let them load, it will only load the set in the folder called CARS67. I have alternate liveries and some models. If I want to use them I have to create a new carset.

Edited by Hologram, Oct 28 2011 - 12:38 AM.

[Burnsy865]

Hologram, on Oct 28 2011 - 12:37 AM, said:

If I have another set of cars in my car folder Gem won't let them load, it will only load the set in the folder called CARS67. I have alternate liveries and some models. If I want to use them I have to create a new carset.

Not sure about that one, maybe if you start a new thread someone with a bit more knowledge will see it  

[Robson Santos]

Great job! Very grateful to the entire team for providing us with more such news!

[Lord]

Hi guys!

First of all, great work with the patch: it's really a well done piece of code, but I have to ask you a way to fix an issue I have here:

Do you know that Ferrari and the Eagle use almost the same amount of fuel, right? Well, I have a huge problem in managing that fuel. For example, let's pick up Spa in GP mode: 28 laps, but both the cars let me do only 25 laps. And this happens to every track in GPL, official and added ones.

I've tried everything, including the delete of GEM+2 and GPL to start a fresh install, but nothing: even the "delete and rebuild" trick didn't work.

So... there is anyone so kind that wants to help me? Any help is highly appreciated :3

[MECH]

Lord, on Jun 11 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Hi guys!

First of all, great work with the patch: it's really a well done piece of code, but I have to ask you a way to fix an issue I have here:

Do you know that Ferrari and the Eagle use almost the same amount of fuel, right? Well, I have a huge problem in managing that fuel. For example, let's pick up Spa in GP mode: 28 laps, but both the cars let me do only 25 laps. And this happens to every track in GPL, official and added ones.

I've tried everything, including the delete of GEM+2 and GPL to start a fresh install, but nothing: even the "delete and rebuild" trick didn't work.

So... there is anyone so kind that wants to help me? Any help is highly appreciated :3

I always add a few laps of fuel in the setup to make sure the cars go full distance.
The fuel consumption is based on the parms in the physics but also based on what the track.ini has set for the cars.
So rather then messing with ini's it should be easier to up the fuel a bit

[Lord]

MECH, on Jun 11 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

Lord, on Jun 11 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Hi guys!

First of all, great work with the patch: it's really a well done piece of code, but I have to ask you a way to fix an issue I have here:

Do you know that Ferrari and the Eagle use almost the same amount of fuel, right? Well, I have a huge problem in managing that fuel. For example, let's pick up Spa in GP mode: 28 laps, but both the cars let me do only 25 laps. And this happens to every track in GPL, official and added ones.

I've tried everything, including the delete of GEM+2 and GPL to start a fresh install, but nothing: even the "delete and rebuild" trick didn't work.

So... there is anyone so kind that wants to help me? Any help is highly appreciated :3

I always add a few laps of fuel in the setup to make sure the cars go full distance.
The fuel consumption is based on the parms in the physics but also based on what the track.ini has set for the cars.
So rather then messing with ini's it should be easier to up the fuel a bit

I can't, since 173 liters is the maximum the Ferrari (for example) can take, and it equals to 25 laps according to GPL 1.3 :/
And I didn't fiddle at all with the ini files, never touched them to modify anything... I don't know what to touch anyway ^^;;

EDIT: Wrong spelling ^^;;


EDIT 2: Actually, I've found something pretty intersting in the track.ini and track67.ini files: most of the fuel parameters are completely different. Here I report the ones from Spa Francorchamps.


TRACK.INI (Original one)

[ ai_track ]
end_start_behavior_section = 20.000000          ; section at which race start behavior should end
merge_from_pit_line_dlong = 450.000000          ; dlong at which cars leaving pits will merge to race line
pit_at_end_of_track = 0.0                       ; 0 if all stalls beyond s/f, 1 if not
pit_lane_end_dlong = 213.000000                 ; dlong where pit lane divider ends
pit_lane_has_wall = 0.000000                            ; 0 if no pit wall, 1 if pit wall exists
pit_lane_on_right = 1.000000                            ; 0 if lane on left, 1 if on right
pit_lane_start_dlong = 13800.000000             ; base dlong for calculating transition to pit line
pit_lane_width_left = 2.000000                  ; width of pit lane in meters to LEFT of PIT.LP
pit_lane_width_right = 4.100000                 ; width of pit lane in meters to RIGHT of PIT.LP
start_of_pit_stalls = 13992.500000                      ; dlong where pit stalls begin
brabham_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.22                ; Brabham AI fuel loading in liters per lap
brm_fuel_load_per_lap = 6.45                    ; BRM AI fuel loading in liters per lap
coventry_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.65               ; Coventry AI fuel loading in liters per lap
eagle_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.89                  ; Eagle AI fuel loading in liters per lap
ferrari_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.91                ; Ferrari AI fuel loading in liters per lap
lotus_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.62                  ; Lotus AI fuel loading in liters per lap
murasama_fuel_load_per_lap = 6.42               ; Murasama AI fuel loading in liters per lap


[ DEFAULT:ai_track ]
end_start_behavior_section = 20.000000
merge_from_pit_line_dlong = 450.000000
pit_at_end_of_track = 0.0
pit_lane_end_dlong = 213.000000
pit_lane_has_wall = 0.000000
pit_lane_on_right = 1.000000
pit_lane_start_dlong = 13800.000000
pit_lane_width_left = 2.000000
pit_lane_width_right = 4.100000
start_of_pit_stalls = 13992.500000
brabham_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.22
brm_fuel_load_per_lap = 6.45
coventry_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.65
eagle_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.89
ferrari_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.91
lotus_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.62
murasama_fuel_load_per_lap = 6.42
track_dlong_sep_coeff = 0.9
track_global_hype_scaling = 0.85

TRACK67.INI (version 1.3 one)

[ ai_track ]
end_start_behavior_section = 20.000000          ; section at which race start behavior should end
merge_from_pit_line_dlong = 450.000000          ; dlong at which cars leaving pits will merge to race line
pit_at_end_of_track = 0.0                       ; 0 if all stalls beyond s/f, 1 if not
pit_lane_end_dlong = 213.000000                 ; dlong where pit lane divider ends
pit_lane_has_wall = 0.000000                            ; 0 if no pit wall, 1 if pit wall exists
pit_lane_on_right = 1.000000                            ; 0 if lane on left, 1 if on right
pit_lane_start_dlong = 13800.000000             ; base dlong for calculating transition to pit line
pit_lane_width_left = 2.000000                  ; width of pit lane in meters to LEFT of PIT.LP
pit_lane_width_right = 4.100000                 ; width of pit lane in meters to RIGHT of PIT.LP
start_of_pit_stalls = 13992.500000                      ; dlong where pit stalls begin
brabham_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.32                ; Brabham AI fuel loading in liters per lap
brm_fuel_load_per_lap = 6.69                    ; BRM AI fuel loading in liters per lap
coventry_fuel_load_per_lap = 6.05               ; Coventry AI fuel loading in liters per lap
eagle_fuel_load_per_lap = 6.27                  ; Eagle AI fuel loading in liters per lap
ferrari_fuel_load_per_lap = 6.33                ; Ferrari AI fuel loading in liters per lap
lotus_fuel_load_per_lap = 5.98                  ; Lotus AI fuel loading in liters per lap
murasama_fuel_load_per_lap = 6.90               ; Murasama AI fuel loading in liters per lap

>>> "Default:Ai Tack" section not existent here... I don't know why :/ <<<<

For a mod that states to be running with the original physics,this is pretty a bad point :/

Edited by Lord, Jun 11 2012 - 11:12 AM.

[MECH]

Sorry but I left some important info out: the info in the track ini is for the ai drivers.
E.g. if you notice that the ai don't drive the full distance but start moving into the pits before race ends it's a sign that these values are set wrong.
Driving a full distance (GP) requires you to also drive with care, spinning several times consumes extra fuel.
I'm not saying you did but the way you drive around makes a difference

What you can do is lower the total number of laps in the track data in Gem so you can drive a full race.

P.S.The default ai... Section is for Gem so it can restore the original track settings if you change anything in GEM regarding those values. I always delete those sections because it resets my manual changes which is quite annoying if you forget that feature

P.S. It is odd that it happens with all tracks

Edited by MECH, Jun 11 2012 - 12:01 PM.

[Lord]

MECH, on Jun 11 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Sorry but I left some important info out: the info in the track ini is for the ai drivers.
E.g. if you notice that the ai don't drive the full distance but start moving into the pits before race ends it's a sign that these values are set wrong.
Driving a full distance (GP) requires you to also drive with care, spinning several times consumes extra fuel.
I'm not saying you did but the way you drive around makes a difference

What you can do is lower the total number of laps in the track data in Gem so you can drive a full race.

P.S.The default ai... Section is for Gem so it can restore the original track settings if you change anything in GEM regarding those values. I always delete those sections because it resets my manual changes which is quite annoying if you forget that feature

P.S. It is odd that it happens with all tracks

Thanks for the reply Mech, it's always a pleasure to know how the whole thing works, expecially from one of the guys who wrote the code ^W^
I sure spin (a lot XDD) but I was talking about the setup screen fuel prediction, for this, I don't think that the whole spinning-thing would matter that much as we're talking about that.
Anyway... I don't want to sound harsh, but historically speaking, the 1.3 patch is a huge compromise against the reality if has to be tweaked in the number of laps to be driven fully: The other mods don't have to be tweaked that way,the original 1.2 GPL doesn't need that tratment too... why this patch does? ._.?

I really hope that this issue will sometime be fixed... It would be a big pity leaving it, since ruins the whole realism on top of that GPL is founded on :/

[Michkov]

The fuel consumption estimates in 1.3 are very conservative. Most off the time you can go a couple of laps more than indicated in the setup screen. I had a league race last Saturday at Spa (28laps) and nobody ran out of fuel. I found that keeping your own fuel consumption data is the better way to go

[Lord]

Michkov, on Jun 11 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

The fuel consumption estimates in 1.3 are very conservative. Most off the time you can go a couple of laps more than indicated in the setup screen. I had a league race last Saturday at Spa (28laps) and nobody ran out of fuel. I found that keeping your own fuel consumption data is the better way to go

Interesting... but why it behaves like this? It's confusing for me. Really, why display that a car can only do a certain number of laps when it can do actually a lot more with the same amount of fuel?  

[Bernd Nowak]

For me in any GPL season (67, 65, 66 and even in 67 1.3) a major rule was to fill in an amount of fuel and then check how much laps I can do with it. Especially for club/league races the best training was to choose a car and try to run the complete race distance and to check if fuel was enough or to much. This way you get used to the track.
Even today they do long runs in F1 to check fuel load and tires. And I remember that even today it might be possible to have not enough fuel regardless how much computer power is used to not have to much fuel

To short this tries sometimes I checked for half of the race distance when I had not enough practise time before a race started.

The reason why the numbers never had been accurate was that track length plays a rule as well as your driving line. And if I'm not totally wrong there are 2 track lengths. I would say the one length is the visible to the car track length while the other is the invisible trk length.

If it shows a lap number of 25 rather then 28 t makes you wonder if fuel fill be enough. The original was the other way around which is worse because you meant to have enough fuel while in sim reality you run out of fuel. Still, you will only notice when you actually try this.

A good test is to start GPL, select multi player, start a host, adjust AI members (a low or none), adjust difficulty and adjust qualify/racetime. For 28 laps spa I would try with 14 laps qualify. 45 - 60 minutes should allow you to run one complete 14 laps stint. My way was to fill in my fuel for 14 laps and run the car until dry. When run dry check the number of timed laps, add one and you have the number of laps. For a 28 lap race multiply by 2

For int short races I preferred to run full stints because they helped me getting used to car with full tanks until race end and they helped me learning the tracks.

Just my 2 cents

[AndersOE]

It isn't necessary to run it dry if you use Pribluda.
Then you can see the amount of fuel left in your tank.
Before a league race I fill my car with 50-60 liters, run a couple of warm up laps
and then when I pass the start finish line I check the amount of fuel in the tank ,
I drive 5 or 6 laps in race pace and then I recheck the fuel left in the tank when I pass the start finish line.
Then you now how many liters you have consumed totally and per lap.
Then it's a simple calcualtion to get the amount needed for the race, but remember to add
2-3 liters to the so you don't run dry.
Always worked for me, never run out of fuel and I dont have a lot of it left when the race ends.
Extra weight slows down your car.

[Lord]

Bernd Nowak, on Jun 12 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

For me in any GPL season (67, 65, 66 and even in 67 1.3) a major rule was to fill in an amount of fuel and then check how much laps I can do with it. Especially for club/league races the best training was to choose a car and try to run the complete race distance and to check if fuel was enough or to much. This way you get used to the track.
Even today they do long runs in F1 to check fuel load and tires. And I remember that even today it might be possible to have not enough fuel regardless how much computer power is used to not have to much fuel

To short this tries sometimes I checked for half of the race distance when I had not enough practise time before a race started.

The reason why the numbers never had been accurate was that track length plays a rule as well as your driving line. And if I'm not totally wrong there are 2 track lengths. I would say the one length is the visible to the car track length while the other is the invisible trk length.

If it shows a lap number of 25 rather then 28 t makes you wonder if fuel fill be enough. The original was the other way around which is worse because you meant to have enough fuel while in sim reality you run out of fuel. Still, you will only notice when you actually try this.

A good test is to start GPL, select multi player, start a host, adjust AI members (a low or none), adjust difficulty and adjust qualify/racetime. For 28 laps spa I would try with 14 laps qualify. 45 - 60 minutes should allow you to run one complete 14 laps stint. My way was to fill in my fuel for 14 laps and run the car until dry. When run dry check the number of timed laps, add one and you have the number of laps. For a 28 lap race multiply by 2

For int short races I preferred to run full stints because they helped me getting used to car with full tanks until race end and they helped me learning the tracks.

Just my 2 cents

Whoa...that was really interesting Bernd, thanks! I didn't know that a driver could use this "protocol" for racing and testing...

But quite frankly,I don't see anything wrong in the 1.2 GPL fuel prediction system...I've done yesterday a full GP length at the Nordschleife (yep, I'm mad...) with the Ferrari 312/67, driving really carefully, almost no off-tracks, no spins... the fuel the simulation predicted me to use for 15 laps was enough as I've set it to do a lap more (16) ,but the tank could take up up to 19 laps of fuel. Guess what? I ran out of fuel when I took into the first bend,in the 17th lap.
The 1.3 prediction system has been a real pain to me: same conditions as above but the fuel prediction was of 12 laps with full tank. Guess? I ran out of fuel at the beginning of the 13th. :/

In the last scenario it wasn't nearly enough to finish the race :/

Edited by Lord, Jun 14 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[Cheapracer]

I thought it was rather amusing that I was download number 1967.

[Wiseriver]

Paul,  I'm trying to get GPL back up and running again on a different computer system, and start enjoying the best game ever once more.  I've tried to download the 67 patch, but, the link doesn't work.  Can you check on it.... or, is it included in the latest gplinstall beta 1.04?  

[Bernd Nowak]

All newer version of the GPLPS installer should have the 1.3 patch included. You can check if you have this directory: (GPL directory)\repository\67_Patch_v1.3. If you have it the needed changes are already included and activated. I hope that this answer helps.

[Burnsy865]

Cheapracer, on Sep 17 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

I thought it was rather amusing that I was download number 1967.

Surely you must win something for that

[Wiseriver]

Bernd Nowak, on Jan 01 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

All newer version of the GPLPS installer should have the 1.3 patch included. You can check if you have this directory: (GPL directory)\repository\67_Patch_v1.3. If you have it the needed changes are already included and activated. I hope that this answer helps.

Thanks Bernd, yes that file is in the directory...   GPL is up and running  

I do have another problem however.   I use to mainly run FV and FG mods previously.  When I try and get the correct car  and 2.0L race engine for the FV cars...  it won't let me select them in GEM.  The two selection boxes won't highlight.    I have FV and FG players set up in the game.... but, apparently still need to do something to make the correct car selection.   Can anyone help out?

[Bernd Nowak]

To get a better chance please create a new thread maybe called "GEM and FV & FG trouble".

[Saiph]

Wiseriver, on Jan 02 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

................
I do have another problem however.   I use to mainly run FV and FG mods previously.  When I try and get the correct car  and 2.0L race engine for the FV cars...  it won't let me select them in GEM.  The two selection boxes won't highlight. I have FV and FG players set up in the game.... but, apparently still need to do something to make the correct car selection.   Can anyone help out?

Bernd Nowak, on Jan 02 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

To get a better chance please create a new thread maybe called "GEM and FV & FG trouble".

And just in case you haven't seen it Wiseriver, there's a forum section called "GPL - Help! I'm having trouble with..." for these type of questions.

Edited by Saiph, Jan 02 2013 - 02:27 PM.