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Zandvoort 67 Multi-Season Add-on by Remy Roesz, Paul Skingley, Border Reiver and Steffen W Rate Topic: ***** 1 Votes

#13 User is offline   sky 

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    Posted May 16 2010 - 01:50 PM

    what do you mean? that it is "grass", although it shows as, at least partially, tarmac? well i guess you have a choice really when creating the textures. one choice being to make a hard edge, probably like it was before, a hard edge between green and gray. gray being what is designated "track", green what is "grass". so no confusion there. another choice could be, if there is a distinct row of polies just for this transitional area, to do what has been done here, and make a softer transition. but then you have to decide what type of surface you want to assign to that row of polies - track or grass? either one has it's faults. if you make it "track", then the track becomes wider than it actually should be giving you more room, but of course it helps keep the impression that you can drive up to the raggedy edge safely - actually even beyond. or if you go the other way and designate it "grass", then yes, the visuals can be misleading. but then you do see the seam between normal tarmac and that verge. well i see it anyway (in your screenshot there is a thin line where the 2 textures do not align perfectly).

    this, however, only applies when you texture a track you yourself or your team is creating. if you are working with a track built by someone else, like zandvoort by papryrus in this case, you do not have the choice of what surface to assign to a polygon (at least to my knowledge). so you can only change the graphics. and this is the case here. so i'd say, what you see now as the transition between track and grass actually used to be grass before, hence the track may appear wider than original. but i'd say you get used to that quite easily, it's a learning thing i guess. well in any case, i would prefer the soft edge of the butt-ugly original graphics any day. especially here at zandvoort, the border used to be pretty green with grass overgrowing the curbs, etc...
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    #14 User is offline   one2fwee 

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      Posted May 16 2010 - 02:13 PM

      Yes i agree, but as you can see from the texture, the tarmac extends quite a way in the "seam" texture (i trust you can see the join?) before the blend of the edge starts. Due to this, one could change the texture so that the proportion between grass and tarmac is more on the grass side of things. A lot of the texture at present seems to be clean tarmac - not part of the blend of grass and tarmac at the edge. This is where the perceptial problem lies.

      I hope this makes sense :)
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      #15 User is offline   Border Reiver 

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        Posted May 16 2010 - 03:00 PM

        In all GPL tracks you look at the 3do and you drive on the trk. As Sky says, you can make the textures look however you want and it will not affect what it feels like to drive on.

        You are quite correct that in the trk file that transition texture in the 3do is mapped onto a surface which is grass, and so although it does look like it is part tarmac and part grass, the surface you are driving on is all grass. Your options are to either drive further in from the edges or to change the texture to show exactly what the surface is. You could achieve this either using a straight line edge between the surfaces which most accurately represents what you are driving on, but also looks very unnatural and unattractive, or you could modify the transition textures to have much more grass and much less tarmac in them, although you would still not have perfect definition of where the edges are. Another option would be to add a thin line at the edge of the transition texture which would show where the edges are, but would also maybe look a little better, although since the real track did not have this "safety" line this is also unrealistic.

        Sky's point about track widths is also a good one, since necessarily when making tracks, the transitions between surfaces needs to be considered. I have seen a variety of approaches, and personally I tend towards using concrete at the edges but including that concrete as part of the total real track width, so that the edges have slightly less grip, perhaps indicating a build up of dust and dirt there. However, when editing a released track there is no option to adjust that retrospectively, so we are stuck with whatever decisions were made in the original release.

        In transition textures it is generally better to go for an asymmetric split though I guess, so that the underlying surface is better represented and drivers automatically adjust their lines accordingly.

        Rob

        This post has been edited by Border Reiver: May 16 2010 - 03:03 PM

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        #16 User is offline   one2fwee 

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          Posted May 18 2010 - 12:20 PM

          Ah thanks for the insight, I will have a look into tweaking it when my computer is back running.
          One thing i have noticed from the screenshots that might be something to do with it is that there is a white line there in the 69 mod. I do not have the 69 mod myself so cannot see this, however it would suggest that possibly the proportion of tarmac is so great in order to accommodate this white line. I can only assume the rest of the tarmac textures in the middle of the track (for the grid and straight for example) use a tiled texture and therefore putting a white line at the edge would not be possible otherwise.

          Therefore, in order to ensure consistency with perceived "track width" in all years, it has been kept the same in 67 and 65 iterations, minus the white line itself. I don't know what programs you need to be able to check the actual 3d track itself to find out what textures are applied where and how they are applied. Does anyone have suggestions on that? Also, the best gpl image viewer / converter to date.

          Anyway, it is good to know the thinking behind these things :)
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          #17 User is offline   JCarvalho 

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            Posted May 23 2011 - 10:02 PM

            Beautiful. Just Beautiful. Thanks for all the work.

            Jim
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            #18 User is offline   Pavel 

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              Posted Sep 10 2011 - 03:00 AM

              I watched this videos from 1969 Zandvoort GP and noticed that pit armco wall was painted black and yellow (part2 2:07). Also curb in Hugenholtzboch still was blac&white. Can someone make this changes to the gpl track, please? :hat-tip:
              part1 www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdo3UXpsFLA
              part2 www.youtube.com/watch?v=jITW1UYYcHs
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              #19 User is offline   Pavel 

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                Posted Sep 13 2011 - 09:26 AM

                Hi,
                I have made small update for pit armco wall. It is for 1969 Zandvoort version. Now you will have black&yellow pit armco when look from track side, and old grey from pit side.

                Attached File(s)


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                #20 User is offline   G.Spinning 

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                  Posted Sep 13 2011 - 09:57 AM

                  Thank you Pavel for your realistic pit armco update. It looks very cool!! :thumbup:
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                  #21 User is offline   JBT 

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                    Posted Sep 14 2011 - 06:15 AM

                    Nice one Pavel!
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                    #22 User is offline   Burnsy865 

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                      Posted Sep 14 2011 - 06:25 AM

                      Thanks Pavel :thumbup:
                      Craig

                      GPL TotalRank score = 59319.348
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                      #23 User is offline   Remy 

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                      Posted Sep 14 2011 - 04:02 PM

                      This is great Pavel :thumbup:

                      I noticed in Video part2, at 2:26, the inside part has a single rail. Attached is a quick fix for that :)

                      Attached File(s)


                      This post has been edited by Remy: Sep 14 2011 - 04:03 PM

                      Gpl 1966 Mod
                      Gpl 1969 Mod
                      Gpl 1967 F2 Mod - WIP
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                      #24 User is offline   Burnsy865 

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                        Posted Sep 14 2011 - 10:32 PM

                        And thanks Remy :thumbup:
                        Craig

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