Race Sim Central Forums - Track FAQ : twenty questions.
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-- Track FAQ : twenty questions.
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https://forum.racesim...p?threadid=1718)
Posted by rodsquad on 26-07-2001 01:20:
Track FAQ : twenty questions.
Sorry, my progress has been slowed by Tour de France.
Actually only 19 questions but I'm sure we'll get there soon. Looks like my
download of all the chat was not really all the chat because I remember some
other posts that I don't see at the moment... At any rate this will probably
serve as a good starting point.
Feel free to give suggestions - or more q and a's.
Track Edit FAQ
====================================================
==================
1) "Why is track editing so hard? It's really easy in Motocross
Madness!"
The tools were indeed never written to be easy to understand,
and never intended to be publically available. Basically Phil
taught me all about editing (with help from Ed and Matt wherever
they could), what they had found out in the months of coding the
stuff themselves. Then I was able to teach others what I knew,
etc, thats how the knowledge spread. Of course everyone wanted
the tools, no-matter-how-unusable and user-unfriendly. So did I,
after all. Phil wrote most of the tutorial. Obviously, he knows
his stuff better than anyone, which can lead to assumptions that
some things may be totally obvious to him, but which are maybe
not that obvious to a newbie.....
[In the case of QUake/Doom] .. the fileformat was released, the
editors for Doom could be made more complete than the GPL stuff
that was all reverse-engineered (an awesome job by Guru!!) Lots
of time went into debugging the tools whenever we encountered
problems (there were lots). There's also some functionality seen
in original tracks that can't be done with the released
trackedit tools (like the shading of certain parts of the track
and objects). This shows how tough reverse engineering can be.
Martijn
====================================================
==================
2) "I made a hill or curve but my car floats or drives where the road
used to be."
Your .trk and .3do don't match. Having changed your .gtk to
include the new hump you have compiled the circuit, but have
forgotten to export a new .trk to include your changes. The .3do
alters how the track looks, which is obviously now as you wanted
it, but the .trk alters how the cars behave, and this file doesn't
include the hump. (This might also explain why the cars appear to
float). Re-export your new .trk and hopefully all should be well,
Rob
====================================================
==================
3) "I copied in the new one and the car still floats."
Probably not. It is all too easy and we have each done it before.
To finally leave this problem behind, use a batch to make
sure to rename the N3D file to 3do etc.
Warren
Here is a super simple bat file to give you the idea.
doit.bat :
/ ****************************************************
********/
REM COMPILE GTK
..\tools\trk23dow\trk23dow -t trackname
REM Delete old track 3do and rename N3D file
del trackname.3do
copy trackname.n3d trackname.3do
del D:\sierra\gpl\tracks\trackname\trackname.3do
copy TRACKNAME.TRK D:\sierra\gpl\tracks\trackame\TRACKNAME.TRK
copy trackname.n3d D:\sierra\gpl\tracks\trackname\trackname.3do
/ ****************************************************
**************/
This bat-file will compile a track, write a report of the
compilation process, rename and copy all nessecary files over to
your GPL-track directory. Then it will launch GPL, select
multiplayer-race, host a race at the track. All you have to do when
it's finished it hit the greenflag in GPL! To make the launch GPL
bit work; you also need to following entries in your *server.ini*
file:
[ race0 ]
ai = 0 ; Number of AI
practice = 30 ; Number of minutes of practice
race_type = 0 ; 0=Nov,1/2=int s/l,3/4=pro s/l,5=GP
track = trackname ; Trackname of track you are working on!
ed_
REM COMPILE GTK AND WRITE LOG-FILE
trk23dow -t salzburg > log.txt
REM Delete old track 3do and rename N3D file
del trackname.3do
copy trackname.n3d trackname.3do
REM Copy MIP's and 3do's to track directory:
Copy *.mip c:\sierra\gpl\tracks\trackname
Copy *.3do c:\sierra\gpl\track\trackname
REM Copy TRK-file, rename and copy ini-file to track-directory:
copy trackname.trk c:\sierra\gpl\tracks\trackname
copy trackname.ini track.ini
copy track.ini c:\sierra\gpl\tracks\trackname
REM *Launch GPL and host a multiplayer race at trackname*
cd\sierra\gpl
gpl -ko"20:Personal Information:lastTrackSelection:trackname"
-ko"20:network parameters:userMode:1" -ko"0:server:launch:1"
end of file
/ ****************************************************
**************/
====================================================
==================
4) "I built a large hill or dip on a straight but the hill is flat on
the top while my car goes up." or "My car still goes underground".
You don't have enough polygons being made for that section. This
is set in the .SET file as far as I know. Take a look at the .SET
topic in the track editing tutorial.
Dave
Or
Apparently there are limits to the hillyness of a straight
section. Split the long hilly straight.
====================================================
==================
5) "How can I edit and modify an original track?"
You can't. If you could, you would then be able to make it shorter
or add banking to make for all kinds of confusion.
====================================================
==================
6) "How do I make the last section and first section meet?"
Note: ideally your track should be constructed so that the last
section of the track is a straight one. If it isn't, this task can
turn rather unpleasant.
Step 1: Remove the orientation mismatch (OM).
To remove it, add the OM to the curvature of the last curved
section. Eg. if this section has a curve of 46.781 degrees and
the OM is -3.4172168 degrees, change the curve's curvature to
46.781 - 3.4172168 = 43.3637832 degrees.
Step 2: Remove the lateral gap.
This is done by adjusting the radius of the last curved
section. There is no simple
look-up-a-value-and-add-it-somewhere solution like with
orientation; you have to adjust the radius, check what
happens to the lateral gap, adjust again, check, adjust,
check... until the gap is 0 or close enough to it.
Step 3: Remove the longtitudinal gap (LG). There are three
different cases here.
3a) If your track's last section is a straight, add the LG to
its length. Eg. with an LG of -781256 and a section length of
961271, set the section's length to 961271 - 781256 = 180015
units.
3b) If your track's last section is a curve and the LG is
positive, add a new straight section after the curve, and set
the LG as the section's length.
3c) If your track's last section is a curve and the LG is
negative, you are in trouble. You must get the LG positive
one way or the other. One of the easier ways is to go back
two or three turns from the s/f line and change their
radiuses until the LG turns positive, and then do as in 3b.
+Cinquo
Also, you can "squeeze" the errors around your track one
section at a time using GPLTrk. Just enter the value 0 in for
whatever error is the trouble. Of course this pushes the error
on to the next section until you get to the last section of
track.
====================================================
==================
7) "How do I make a tight 90 degree corner?"
The minimum radius of a corner is slightly more than the minimum
wall radius you have. E.g. you have your wall0 at -10metres, so
your radius must be at least -10.0001 metres for the track to work.
With tight corners (curvature more than 45 degrees or so), you will
also have problems-- try splitting the corner into smaller angled
pieces.
Guru
====================================================
==================
8) "How do I get rid of the clipping for infield and outfield
objects?" "What to the section references do?"
The references are there to tell trk23dow which TRK sections the
objects are next to. Let's say you have a pitbuilding that is
outside the driving area, and it next to sections 59, 60, 0, 1, 2
and 3. trk23dow needs to know this in order to link the visibility
of your pitbuilding to the correct TRK sections so that GPL will
draw the object at the correct time. There are problems with this
however, and the exact reason escapes me. But try: * ensuring the
objects are not in the driving part of the track * setting the
height of the wall at the edge of the driving area to 1- very low.
Guru
9) "Why do my AI keep driving at a pace of aproximately 40mph?"
The number of records is almost certainly what's wrong. You can
specify the number of records in RpyToLp. It could be more that 1
out, but probably only on a longish-track. I think its default
calculation is quite a bit out for the Nurburgring for
instance. One day I'll figure out the One True Way.
Nigel
-Remove *all* lp files from the track-directory you are planning on
making an lp-file for.
ed_
From what I've been able to determine, you can figure the correct
number of records by dividing the track length (in meters) by 3,
dropping any remaining fractions, and then add 1.
Example:
Track length = 5000 meters
Length/3 = 1666.6667
Drop the remaining fraction ==> 1666
Add 1 ==> 1667 is the correct number of records.
The info in the guides about 1 record per tick appears to be
inaccurate.
- Bubba
10) "What is the best way to add white lines at the edges or center of
the racing surface?"
I'd use a wall, just like any curb. Probably type 2, though I
really don't think it makes much difference whether you pick 1,
2 or 3.
+Cinquo
If you have white lines around most of the track, and your
track is the same width, I'd use a texture with the white lines
painted on. You will save a lot of polys, but you'll lose the
feature of slightly less grip on the type 2 or 3 walls.
Guru
11) "Why does RPYtoLP tell me that the track trk has an error because
the seventh surface value isn't 0?"
You need to run your GTK thru trk23dow with the -z syntax to
"clean it".
ed_
====================================================
==================
12) "How do I fix small altitude craks?"
In genereal, don't spend any time doing serious biz outside the
track surface itself until you are satisfied with the elevations. I
use -s and -f and I love them (cause I remember the days before
they were available..ugh). But, they can destroy your work. One
idea is to add two traces outside for the intermediate scenery -
then remove and re-add them after the track is go. Plan ahead The
theory goes: make the track perfect when flat (all splits and so on
for access roads, track details etc), then add altitudes, then get
on with the rest..
Matt
Here is a simple script that will run smoothing and back up old
track - be careful.
/ ****************************************************
**************/
smoothit.bat :
REM Smooth out altitude bumps
..\tools\trk23dow\trk23dow -s trackname
move trackname.gtk save_smooth.gtk
copy trackname.gk2 trackname.gtk
..\tools\trk23dow\trk23dow -f trackname
del trackname.gtk
copy trackname.gk2 trackname.gtk
/ ****************************************************
**************/
====================================================
==================
13) "Why does my large TSO produce clipping?"
The problem is that your object is in 2 sections...this is bad,
and will likely produce clipping. Make the sections to fit, or
split the 3d objects to fit.
Matt
====================================================
==================
14) "How do I add collision detection to an object?" or "Why can I
drive right through an object?"
Find the program : "3docoll" to help with your collisions.
1: open a .3do with it.
2: for now just do 1 collision volume.
3: save .3do as differnt name.
4: open up the .3do in GPL Editor.
5: add new string called "collision" (without quotes)
6: goto node DNAH "HAND"
7: double click on the next node in the tree.
8: enter value of newly added string ("collision") in
string_offset
9: goto MIRP "PRIM" -> collision tree root, keep going till u
get to an empty node
10: right click on empty node, insert -> replace with flavor 4
11: insert the value of child nodes, how ever many sides to
the wall (minimum = 3)
12: replace the new empty nodes with flavor 6
13: replace the next new empty nodes with flavor 16
14: replace next empty nodes with flavor 10
15: double click on the new flavor 10 nodes and insert a value
between 1-20 (1 being really hard, 20 being really thin/soft)
16: with the flavor 6's you added earlier, double click on
each one of those and add the plane number in which you want
the collisions to be around.
17: save
18: quit
19: run around in a circle (joke)
20: test in GPL, by ramming the object as hard as possible
Hope this helps somewhat, just to get you started.
Scott
Here is some more really great collision info by Guru.
https://www.flack99.f.../3dodummies.htm
It is particularly useful to get a grip on planes as you will need
to create a "convex hull". The convex hull is just a fancy name
for the surfaces you want to crash into. (As long as you don't
want to crash into some kinda of crazy doughnut!) If you
accidentally make a concave hull like I did the first time you
will crash into it and it will crush you and send your car
bouncing off the top of the horizon. Tip : don't make a collision
shaped like a cave <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
After you understand how to pick out the three points of a plane
on the evil geniuses page you will be ready to pick out the
collision planes from the many planes that make up your
object. Pick out the plane points in 3doEdit using wire frame view
and enter them into this spreadsheet. Remember - counter
clockwise!!
https://home.att.net/...uad/planeit.xls
You will have to enter x,y, and z coordinates for each point I, J,
and K. Then you will see the A, B, C, and D parts of the plane
definition and will be able to easily pick the plane number out of
the plane list in GPLEdit. Now you have the plane number for
step number 16 of Scott's collision instructions.
====================================================
==================
15) "How can I make a pit lane?"
Make a pit lane just as you do the track surface, just follow it on
from one section to the next moving away from the track or towards
the track.
st
====================================================
==================
16) "How do you add flag bearing corner workers in your track?"
Find a file called flagger.3do and another called flagger.srb.
drop them in your track file.Include a line for each in your tso
file. eg
[ 66]: 3, 1100.0, -9.0, 0.0, 90.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, flagger
meaning set at 1100 metres from start 9 metres on RH side of
centreline at 90 degrees
Jim Pearson builder of the
Ps You won't see them in training mode, only in race or race
practice mode Cheers.
====================================================
==================
16) "What is the relationship of GPL units versus pixels?"
Hmm.. GPL TRK units are in 1/500ths of an inch, GPL 3DO units are
in metres. When using TRK23DOW, you have the .TEX file where
scale values are used to determine the relationship between metres
(3do) and texture width/height (where 1 = the complete width or
height of the texture, 2= the texture repeated twice, ...)
Guru
====================================================
==================
17) "What's up with the bizzar graphics effects? I see, my sky is
getting green along the way and the walls on both sides on the
track are merging in the sky."
It's probably one of two things, if you think it's your track
running into the horizon.mip then you need a bigger one. I suggest
you take a trip to Jay Beckwith's web "Team Friendship" and
download a bunch of sky packages and unzip them into your track
directory (Jay has read me's with them) until you find the right
size one to suit. Secondly if you dont have enuff trackside
textures yet and its just a bare beta sometimes this screws
everything up, but again the correct Sky will cure
this. Skies/Horizon same thing (as a package).
Mark Beckman
====================================================
==================
18) How can I use the altidude functions exported from Matijn's
altitude workksheet?"
The file has to be saved "space delimeted" not "comma"
delimited. From excel I save the file as "dos mode txt" that works
for me.
Arthur S
====================================================
==================
19) "How can I make a Start/Finish line texture?"
You need to have a texture called sfline.mip for it. This is one
of the things that are mentioned nowhere at all in the
tutorials. The grid line textures are done similarly, but I don't
remember what you need to call their mip.
+Cinquo
You need entries in your TEX file for both S/F line and
Gridboxes. Without them t23 won't know what to do. This is off the
top of my head.
4001 sfline
4002 gridbox
4003 groove
Dave
====================================================
==================
20) <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">
<FONT COLOR="#FF0000" SIZE="1">[ 26 July 2001 03:53: Message edited 3 times,
lastly by rodsquad ]</font>
Posted by Mark Beckman on 26-07-2001 13:26:
Thanks for your time Rod.
__________________
Mark
Posted by Peter Geraedts on 26-07-2001 14:31:
Nice work!
I wonder if it's possible to make the faq stick on top of the topic list like
they do at the atlas f1 forum.
Peter
Posted by Arthur S on 26-07-2001 20:42:
Nice beginning for a reference on the "black art" of track building. Thanks for
the time and effort.
One thing though, the link to Guru's 3dodummies is not working. Does someone
know if this is still available and if so, where?
__________________
Watkins Glen 1948 is alive!
Posted by rodsquad on 27-07-2001 15:33:
The link seems to be working for me. I don't think I'm pulling it from local
disc. Some of the links in the actual page may not work now but I think you can
find an example of something that has collision and something that doesn't to
compare.
Posted by Peter Geraedts on 06-08-2001 15:34:
Bump! It was the last post on the page.
Peter
Posted by rodsquad on 07-08-2001 01:17:
Added 20th question.
20) "What do the altitude equation coeficients mean?"
https://home.att.net/...faq_tracked.txt
I saw it mentioned that you can change your background floor color but I don't
know how to do it.. anybody??
Posted by Cinquo on 07-08-2001 09:25:
Regarding the background floor color...
You have to edit the colors of the horizon object's bottom polygons. Here's how
I do it:
1. Open your horiz.3do in GPLEditor.
2. Dig into the subtree titled MIRP "PRIM", looking for "Flat Polygon" type
nodes. They're just what the name says, flat polygons. Amongst those polygons
you'll find the ones that make up the horizon floor.
3. A flat polygon node can be edited by double-clicking on it. The stuff for
editing the polygon's colour is in the top left corner of the editing dialog
box: there are text-fields for directly inputting the RGB values, or you can
click on the "select" button to find one from the standard Windows palette tool.
4. Remember to save often. GPLEditor is very prone to crashing.
There's a lot of flat polygons in the average horizon object, and it may be
tricky to find the ones that constitute the horizon floor. Here's a trick to
ease it up a bit:
Take some screenshots of your track where the horizon floor is visible. Load the
screenshots in a paint program and use the color pickup tool (most paint
programs should have one) to find out the floor polygons' RGB values. Then, load
the horizon object in GPLEditor and look for polygons whose RGB values match the
ones in your screenshots.
<FONT COLOR="#FF0000" SIZE="1">[ 07-08-2001 09:28: Message edited 1 time, lastly
by Cinquo ]</font>
__________________
+Cinquo
Posted by Chris_K on 13-08-2001 10:05:
Bump
__________________
Chris_Kelly
Rank +4.921
Brown Helmet
Since 1998
Developer of Mt Panorama, Bathurst (p)
targanon@hotmail.com MSNGR.
https://bathurst.qldgamers.com
Posted by Chris_K on 13-08-2001 10:06:
BUMP
__________________
Chris_Kelly
Rank +4.921
Brown Helmet
Since 1998
Developer of Mt Panorama, Bathurst (p)
targanon@hotmail.com MSNGR.
https://bathurst.qldgamers.com
Posted by Cinquo on 13-08-2001 10:12:
FAQ item #23: to remove BUMPs, use trk23dow -f or -s.
__________________
+Cinquo
Posted by Wenne on 27-08-2001 22:23:
There's a second way to edit the ground color of the horiz.mip
Open up in 3doedit an navigate to the ground. D-click on the ground an select
edit polygon. Here you can type in the new RGB values, enter and with "update
3do file" from the file menu you can save your change, thats it. <IMG
SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
Wenne
__________________
Wenne
Wild South Racing Team
https://www.wsrt.de/
Posted by Scott Przybylski on 28-08-2001 07:20:
adding to Cinquo, after using -f/-s be sure to check gaps in your .gtk, I just
found out that is why avus59 is crashing so much, there is almost a gap between
every track section.
Scott
__________________
West Racing for President!!
Posted by Cinquo on 28-08-2001 10:49:
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott Przybylski:
adding to Cinquo, after using -f/-s be sure to check gaps in your .gtk, I
just found out that is why avus59 is crashing so much, there is almost a
gap between every track section.
Scott
Thanks for the tidbit, but I was just referring to bumps of the Chris_K kind.
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
__________________
+Cinquo
Posted by Ttoff on 29-08-2001 16:39:
horiz.3do editing made more comfortable.
Problem:
when I open horiz.3do from silverstone with GPL-Editor, go into the PRIM-section
and press F2 (Set Top of Drawing Tree)nothing displays.
Solution:
it doesnt display because there are some incredibly large coordinates in the
XYZS-section (for silverstone its points 60-64).
change these cooridinates from +/-1000000000 to +/-1000, save the 3do and
reopen.
now, u can browse the 3do like any other <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif"
border="0">
makes it more easy to add/change things <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
I havent changed the coordinates of points 60-64 back to there original value.
That hasent been a problem so far.
Posted by Guru on 29-08-2001 22:24:
For some tracks (Nurburgring, Spa, ...) that will cause some problems, but it's
a very neat way of displaying the horiz.3do ! Nice one <IMG
SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
__________________
.: Guru : Phil :.
.: GPLEA : GPL Formats :.
Posted by Strava on 01-09-2001 02:15:
re: 14) "How do I add collision detection to an object?" or "Why can I
drive right through an object?"
Where can I find the 3docoll prog >OR< can steps 1,2,3 be done in gpledit?
__________________
I don't care who wins.
I just want to race!
Good Luck & Good Racing!
Posted by Scott Przybylski on 01-09-2001 07:43:
3do coll is at my website, and you will need to use GPL Editor as well.
Scott
__________________
West Racing for President!!
Posted by Strava on 02-09-2001 00:04:
Got 3docoll via email from JaiPaSai. Thx John.
Scott,Checked the backstretch->GPL->editing stuff. Did not see 3docoll there.
The 3do bases should be usefull tho. Thx
__________________
I don't care who wins.
I just want to race!
Good Luck & Good Racing!
Posted by rodsquad on 19-09-2001 22:26:
How do you fix a bumpy track editor? - Don't worry about it!
Here is a link to the latest faq I am maintaining. I will add some more to this
in the near future but it look sessentially the same right now - just fell off
the bottom..
https://home.att.net/...faq_tracked.txt
Posted by Strava on 06-07-2002 18:50:
You might want to add wall top textures. That seems to come up regularly. See
other recent thread about it.
__________________
I don't care who wins.
I just want to race!
Good Luck & Good Racing!
Posted by Jussi on 25-07-2002 23:04:
Happy Birthday, FAQ! ... Just noticed the FAQ is posted exactly one year ago...
/Jussi
Posted by docroberto on 24-10-2002 05:33:
A quick question...how many different unk3 values can you assign to a wall type?
docroberto
Posted by Wolf-HR on 26-10-2002 20:32:
6.2. Lateral Gap
I'm making my first track and have come across lateral gap problem (basically, I
was just 'randomly' slapping on curves and straights in GPLtrk, 'till it was
time to close the track). Closing the lateral gap is easy, provided one has
enough longitudinal gap, and can be done with only one formula.
For example orientation of the last section I has was -65°, and curvature 75°,
lateral gap of front straight was 482787. All I had to do (theoretically) was to
calculate 482787/(1-cos(-65°+75°)) Unfortunately longitudinal gap was too small
(I 'overshot' the first section), so I increased curvature to 77° and redid the
calculation (lateral gap decreased and included angle increased).
Hope it helps...
__________________
[Aside.] Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.
9'01.2" - 9'01.5" - 9'01.4" - 9'01.0" = ticket to immortality (four consecutive
laps in '61 German GP by eventual winner)
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