17 replies to this topic

[MickeK]

Honestly I'm not much of a Gamer and the only Racing SIM I've ever used is GPL. Purchased original back in the 90'ties and as I later found out all exceptional MODs I dedicated a computer with a wheel just to run this my one and only SIM (and game). As I understand it GPL's racing engine still i considered a really good one and I loved the 'realistic' feeling in driving it. As well as I loved all wonderful MOD's related to my favorite seasons (F1 67 and 69 and GT67). I've been quite happy with this setup but now I consider if rFactor 2 might be a 'fresh re-start' to me? Perhaps someone more experienced can give me some hints here around my rFactor 2 newbie quests?

As far as I can see rFactor 2 (even if it's not the latest SIM) is considered to be the most realistic SIM when it comes to driving. Even if GPL is very good I guess rFactor 2 is at least as good as that. That's the most important issue for me.

Next I found that rFactor offers me (even if I'm not sure of how to equip the game with what I'm after) my fav cars as kind of 'MODs'. T.i. the Lotus 49 of 67, the Matra MS80 of 69. And in addition it seems to serve me with the possibilty to race my own car, a Mazda MX5 07, in the game. That would be something and a real teaser to me anyhow.

Mostly I train and do AI-races on the historical tracks of 67-69. I guess rFactor 2 when it comes to MOD's can supply me with most of those tracks as well? I'm not sure if MOD's (as GPL MOD's) include historical season cars to my AI-opponents or if I have to download every other car (not the ones I drive) seperatly? Just try to prepare for what I'm up to.

I handle everything in GPL from GEM and just use the seasons mentioned. It can be a bit messy with all MOD specific settings, but it works. I checked out some of the rFactor interface and as I understand it it's more of select a car, select a track and then go? I guess you're not able, as in GPL from GEM, connect a specific car to a specific season and then automatically race agains AI's with 'correct' cars. Or is it that I can save specific selections as 'seasons' perhaps?

I stop there as I have a lot of questions before I decide to change the setup of my SIM computer. Just putting out this to get some hints from you around my thought here.

[mcmirande]

Hello, are you thinking in a substitute for GPL?

Well, that doesn't exist without loss.  I tried most "modern" sims and none of them made me feel the same in terms of physics and immersion, but that's a bit subjective. The objective thing is that no modern SIM have historic complete seasons with all their cars and tracks with own physics in the detail we have in GPL.

Many times I though the time of GPL will eventually end and all we should move to a new "modern" sim and thought about which it sim it should be. Thus, my search was rather active.  In terms of physics I liked the most iRacing and the beta versions of NetKar, but the first is essentially a business and the second was abandoned for AC.

Also, I may imagine some GPLers driving other sims, but just cannot mind the whole GPL community migrating to a modern SIM and that would be worst if the SIM has a "boss" winning money with simracing. In general terms I think the "semi-abandonware" condition is essential for GPL drivers and community.

Cheers, Marcos.

[Millennium]

In my experience Rfactor 2 has the very best physics and force feedback, it's just that the game itself feel so bareboned.
You can't do championships in rFactor 2 indeed, only single races. I often found myself getting bored really quickly.

Maybe if you can find a online league, like in GPL, there is more motivation to drive but I don't know if there are any leagues doing the sixties F1 cars.

[paul_v]

Fully agree with all the guys have said beforehand,  but if you a GPL type of person like myself and the rest of us..

My personal opinion is to try GTLegends with the Power and Glory mod (P&G) very good indeed.

And I find Rfactor 1 pretty good with the added plus that their are literally thousands of free mods Inc 60s,70,80s and later open wheel cars/mods to choose from.

They will also run on an older PC and lower spec machines and gfx cards no problem.

Another plus is they are well suited to earlier wheels and pedals like G25s & G27s etc.

So you should be fine with your existing setup.

Paul.

Edited by paul_v, Aug 06 2020 - 09:41 AM.

[jgf]

GPL has a certain ambiance not achieved by any other sim.  It stands alone to this day.

rF2 is said to have the best physics but is little improved over rF1 in other areas and is lacking many expected features.  Many other newer sims seem similar - they excel in one or two areas but are deficient or totally lacking in others.

For my tastes GTR2 remains the best all round sim;  good graphics and sound, good FFB, decent AI (especially if you spend some time tweaking it), single races, season races, multi-class races, day/night cycles, variable weather, a wide selection of mods and tracks, and runs well on any newer system.  Add the P&G mod for vintage sport cars ('60's-'70's) and/or convert the LM55 mod from GTL (simple text edits) for '50's sport cars and you can run anything from Minis and Spitfires to IMSA, Canam, and F1.

[MickeK]

Thank's for all input. Two things made me curious on rFactor 2, the Mazda MX5 option (as it would be very nice to drive your actual IRL car in races) and some YouTube clips I saw with the 'Gulf' Porsche 917 on Le Mans (really like that car). It looked real nice and was a teaser. But when I checked my GPL favorites the Lotus 49 1967 and the Matra MS80 1969 in rFactor YouTube clips recently I must say the visual impression of those was a disappointment. They are far better in the GPL Mods I must say. Looks matters and those mods in rFactor 2 was very far from graphics of both the Mazda cars and the Gulf Porsche. So I guess you have to pick certain cars and tracks in rFactor 2 to be impressed and the 67-69 seasons don't seem to be at GPL class when it comes to visual impression.

When it comes to physics I have to admit it's the most important thing. And I really like this in GPL. Still, not having thought of more modern Sims, I was more or less sure that modern Sims had catched up by now. I knew GPL is considered to still be a top class realistic driving experince, but couldn't figure out why developers by now had'nt put together sims that matches GPL in that part. And as I saw some Sim-driver's top 5 when it comes to physics he stated that rFactor 2 (despite that it was considered an 'old' game compared to the opponents) was outstanding in physics. Other Sims was better in graphics but he said there's no other Sim with that response to the actual driving and the force feedback was exceptional in his opinion. And he pointed out that rFactor 2 was far better to rFactor 1 (even if that version had more addons, cars and tracks) in physics.

GPL wasn't even mentioned and I guess he never have tried it. As I run my GPL on a Linux computer through Wine I can't even test rFactor as I understand it more or less have to run in generic Win to work well. So at the moment I more or less try to get an impression from what i hear and read from others. I hear some here say rFactor 2 is the most accurate in physics but those pushing GPL as the best one still. And I like it. But as said a bit surprised if modern developers of Sims still can't match it.

With all this said I hesitate. I'm not depending on running Champinonships as I mostly relax and try to beat my old records from 67 and 69 seasons and the GT67 MOD. Sometimes racing the AI's. Love all the tracks from that period but as long as I can load them up as single tracks it's ok. However its very nice to race with cars from the same periods and it seems like GPL rules in that section. The rFactor 67 MOD looks %20br=
On the other hand other cars and tracks in rFactor 2 looks great. And I've already mentioned that it was my impressions of the Mazda MX5 Mods and the Gulf Porsche Mods that made me look a bit in rFactor 2 direction. So it seems like someone said about gains and losses. I don't know how active modders of rFactor 2 are so if there's improvements on F1 67 and 69 to expect. GPL Modders impresses me as there's often new things going on. But haven't seen the desireble 'Mazda MX5 MOD', nor the Gulf Porsche MOD (70?) in some pipeline.

Guess you never can get it all . I know more of what to expect every day and will stay on GPL as long as appearantly rules considering my favorite seasons. Still I'm curious of running those MOD's in rFactor 2 that really looks nice. And it's not possible to have them both on my Linux machine. It's a h-ll of work to take the Linus and installed GPL with all Mods down, make it a generic Win10 and re-install everything. Perhaps it's worth the work to be able to have both Sims running. Perhaps when the dark falls later this autumn.

But it would be nice to hear more of your opinions of the physics drivning GPL and rFactor 2. Seems like it's a matter of taste? If so it also seems like there's more or less no difference and that GPL from the 90'ties still is as good as any modern Sim. I love GPL and as a fan I like to think it's the most realistic driving experience. At the same time I wonder if it's true? How come no one managed to do it better in almost 25 years? Love to hear your reflections.


Might as well add the clips I'm talking about:

F1 67 rFactor. The track looks ok but the cars don't:
https://www.youtube....h?v=jXx9dSgI1_4

Same goes for the Matra MS80 69:
https://www.youtube....h?v=LqUpjCtvczQ

But this version with the Gulf Porsche at LeMans looks great:
https://www.youtube....h?v=5egwe6ivjG4

Edited by MickeK, Aug 06 2020 - 03:20 PM.

[jgf]

"...but couldn't figure out why developers by now had'nt put together sims that matches GPL in that part"
"But as said a bit surprised if modern developers of Sims still can't match it.

For the same reason Sierra/Papyrus disappeared and Kaemmer struck out on his own - marketing.  There was to be a successor to Nascar 2003 with even better physics, graphics, etc., but Vivendi, who had acquired Sierra, insisted on a more arcade style game to appeal to a larger market.  Could there be a modernized GPL or GTR2?  Certainly, but in the time it would take to develop such a  sim, whose appeal would admittedly be a niche market, the team could create a half dozen simpler "sims", any of which would sell many more copies.

Another factor is the learning curve for realistic sims;  this was a major blow to GPL sales, which were only about 300k it first year.  Few gamers today have the patience, concentration, or attention span to spend months mastering a single game.  Look in forums for these newer sims, how often are there discussions on creating setups or on driving style as compared to threads on getting the image on three screens or tweaking graphics so detailed you can ascertain what brand of sneakers the guy outside turn three is wearing.  People want to download setups, thinking this will instantly make them winners, rather than learning the nuances of the cars and how to make their own setups.

I'm reminded of a blog I read a few years ago, someone complaining about Skyrim, (paraphrasing) "I went to a couple of dungeons then visited a couple of towns, and noticed I'd been playing three hours already.  I don't have time to look in every little corner for loot, I don't have time to talk to every NPC to get quests.  I like a game I can play through in ten or twelve hours and move on".  This is the attitude of a new generation of gamers;  there is little market for a true racing sim or flight sim there.

[Cookie]

There is a Gulf 917K 1971 in the pipeline...

PS
have you seen the Watkins Glen 71 promo video?

Edited by Cookie, Aug 07 2020 - 02:48 AM.

[Stefan Roess]

Cookie, on Aug 07 2020 - 02:44 AM, said:

There is a Gulf 917K 1971 in the pipeline...

PS
have you seen the Watkins Glen 71 promo video?

Watkins Glen 1971 - Promotion - Grand Prix Legends - Porsche 917 [HD]
https://www.youtube....h?v=IFfx2lkqtq0

Edited by Stefan Roess, Aug 07 2020 - 04:11 AM.

[MickeK]

Thank's jgf and Cookie. Was aware of the lack of commersial success in original GPL due to the high learning level. Bought it when released and remember all frustration trying to even get around a track. Took a while and then gradually you learned. I was patient and just kept on and like this way of develop an acutal skill. So to me (sadly not the majority) that was a positive demand. Then pausing the game for a decade I got into all inputs from the community and was astonished anf hooked. As said not much of a gamer (the only game I've owned beside GPL was WW!! U-boat Silent Service) but GPL is alive and I dedicated a computer just to be able to run it full out.

And I like the Gulf Porsche. Haven't installed CanAm though so it might perhaps be added. I'm not that kind of guy who install every MOD and check out all cars. Have too much other things taking my time. Instead I focused on the seasons that as a pre-teen got me interested in racing. As original GPL was 67 season it was like going back in time when me and my friends followed (not on TV back then) the outcome of races. Death was following F1 for sure in those days. Hard to imagine how sad it really was but another time. Cars got faster and safety was not at all. Horrifying when you think of it.

Anyway. My deal with GPL has been to pic a car from MOD's F1 67 (Lotus 49), F1 69X (Matra MS80) and the Sportscar 67 (previos GT67) where I drive the Gulf Ford. I also installed the 68MOD but just recently so I really don't experienced it. I've tried to catch up with addons, but as I sometimes have paused for periods it's easy to loose track of whats new, what you have and whats intersting from my point of view. I THINK I've managed to get all those fanstastic track updates (use the tracks for each season only) even if I'm not sure. Just to get into all threads, compare with what you have is a bit time consuming.

As I understand it GPL's physics is more or less at least as good as the modern Sims, so my conclusion is it's not any use of leaving GPL at all. Perhaps, just to be able to try out my Mazda MX5 in races and perhaps just to try race some present F1, it would e nice to install some of the newer games as well. rFactor 2 or maybe Assetto Corsa or another one with those options. If so more research to get the most realistic physics.

But to do that I need to configure my sim computer from Linux to Win10 so I can still use GPL most of the time and occationally rund some lap in a Mazda MX5 or so. The present installtion of GPL was done years ago and from that on I've put in addons as well as modify 'my' cars with skins of my own. That's what I manage with some graphic skills when it comes to MOD and the help from this forum to learn about what files and software to be used. It's just fun to recognize your cars and managable as I use quite few of them. Later postings (to old to be seachable) of mine shows the result. Perhaps I have to screendump some and put in my gallery. Only my IRL MAzda is there now .

So it is some work to re-configure. First of all I have to localise my edited cars and helmets and save them for reuse. And then go through a re-installation of the original game (I know there's a good step-by-step guide somewhere here), re-install the MOD's, find what addons in cars and track I've used and so on. And I guess there's much (lap times) you just can copy from the old folders as soon as a re-installtion is done.

Well. It will be my strategy. I've already found out that any new Sim wount replace my GPL experince at all. It might add some other fun racing if I go through the computer confi routines. Might do that later this autumn. An opprtunity do 'celean up' a bit as I for example never use the first 69 MOD, just the 69X. GEM is a bit cluttered and sometimes, when it's been some months without racing, you forget how things work in combinations.

Finally, perhaps someone can enlighten me of more than the upcoming Gulf Porsche (couldn't see any posting about that in CanAm MOD section though?).

1. I use the 60fps patch when I do hotlap racing. A bit confused (time goes and your memory fails) of three different versions of that in GEM that seems connected to different MODs. It's barable as I just try until it works. But I guess there's none yet that are able to handle the AI's as I allways have to go back in fps when I race. Otherwise I win with laps alla the time .

2. I use the GPLRank (was down a while but seems to be up again) as it's fun to follow how you develop and make notes. Is this still the Rank 'in business' or are there others? As I can use it for 67 Historical Mode (that's connected to the original 67 as I understand it) and 69X that was added it almost good enough BUT as I nowdays just use the SC67 (Sportscar MOD) I miss that. Just 67GT is there and that's another MOD I've replaced.

Long posting but I guess it sums up how I started this thread to learn more about modern Sims related to my dear GPL. And naturally it stays and hopefully the community keep it going. Thank's all. Feel free to comment.

[Stefan Roess]

MickeK, on Aug 07 2020 - 05:02 AM, said:

Finally, perhaps someone can enlighten me of more than the upcoming Gulf Porsche (couldn't see any posting about that in CanAm MOD section though?).

The Porsche 917 will be part of the Sports Cars & Prototypes 1971 Mod which is still in development.
I am sure there was a screenshot posted somewhere but I can not find it atm.

Look here for more Mods under development:
New Mods in the works?
https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...showtopic=13434

Stefan Roess, on Nov 18 2019 - 06:53 AM, said:

Bob has car models for the next 20 years of GPL
https://historicracinglegends.com/
-> also click on Index on top of the page to sort by Year, Name, Created, Modified

Following above link(s) you will also discover this
1971 Porsche 917/20 (PinkPig) for GPL
https://historicracin...ct=240&mid=1084

Edited by Stefan Roess, Aug 07 2020 - 06:29 AM.

[tdurrett]

For my money (or lack of it) I spend my time on GPL, GTR2 and GTR2(Power&Glory mod).   Like GPL the tracks and cars are free and there is a daily infusion of of cars from other games that that have been converted to GTR2 (including rfactor's Hankook MX-5 Cup and a MAZ mod).  There are so many mods available for free download GTR2 that I have 4 separate GTR2 installs (modern cars 2005+ including current GTLM, GT3, GT4 cars ) and 2 P&G installs that I keep the classic era cars (50's era, 60s LeMans, as well as F1 cars (1937, 1950, 1967, 1971, 1975, 1985, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1993-96, 1998, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, and Formula Ford 1600).  Track conversions from RF and other games include the latest lazer scanned tracks for almost every around the world.

My Power & Glory Mod for GTR2 has special class for LeMans 50's era cars (A C Ace,  Aston Martin DBR 1, Aston Martin DBR 2, Austin Healey 100s, Ferrari 212 Export, Ferrari 250 TR,  Ferrari 375 Plus, Ferrari 500 TRC, Jaguar C-Type, Jaguar D-Type, Maserati 300 S, Maserati 450S, Maserati A6 Coupe, Maserati Tipo 60-61 ''Birdcage'', Mercedes 300 SLR, Mercedes W196R, Mercedes-Benz 300 SL ''Gullwing'', Porsche 718 1959).

I have added a multitude of cars to P&G "GT Over 2 Liter" class to include 1960 LeMans Corvette, 1963 Corvette Grand Sport, 1964 Cheetah GT V8, Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagato, Aston Martin DB4GT, Aston Martin DP214,  Bizzarrini, Ferrari 250 GT California, Ferrari 250 GT Lusso, Ferrari 250 GTO, Ferrari 250 GTO-64, Ferrari 250 LM, Ferrari 250 SWB, Ferrari 275 GTB, Ferrari 365 GTB-4, Jaguar E-Type,  Maserati-Sebring-4000, Shelby Daytona Coupe, Shelby GT350, and Triumph TR-4 so my offline races at Goodwood looks like a Revival Meeting!

The quality of the physics vary in each mod and each car but thats part of the fun of it!

[Stefan Roess]

And if you want to race online with the GTR2 Power & Glory (P&G) mod ( https://gtlw.000webhostapp.com/ ) I recommend the Festbierbude (the last Le Mans event had 15 drivers).
https://www.festbierbude.de/
(German/ English)

For racing GT Legends (GTL) online I recommend the Altbierbude:
https://www.altbierbude.de/
(German/ English)

Both leagues/ websites offer an Auto-Downloader, because you need their tracks and custom skins to be able to join their servers. I store the auto downloader updates on my external hard drive to save some space. Unpacked it will add around 30 GB to your GT Legends folder. With my old hard drive it has taken GTL minutes to start with so much conent, but with my "new" internal SSD loading times are no problem anymore.

Edited by Stefan Roess, Aug 07 2020 - 07:38 AM.

[JCarvalho]

Personally I love rFactor2, and I still try to race GPL online once or twice a week. But then I'm retired and have all the time in the world to set them up and run them with all the possible mods. I also have several installs of rFactor1 and updated installs of GTL, GTR2, and PnG. When I first started rF2 I found it almost as difficult and challenging as my first months with GPL, which was a big plus. My favorite all-time sim car is rFactor2's Brabham BT20. The feel seems as close to real life as I can imagine at this stage of development for racing sims and hardware. I find the current rF2 mod of 1967 F1 cars is disappointing. Sounds like you're probably best to stick with GPL. When you find yourself with more time, maybe there will be even more sims to consider.

I'm jealous of the collection of tdurrett.

[jgf]

I'm also retired... and keep wondering where is all that leisure time I was supposed to have.  I've actually been  pruning all my sims, removing mods and tracks that I rarely, if ever, used.  GPL went from every mod and around 350 tracks to five mods and 200 tracks.  GTR2 was a cancerous growth on my HD, infested with numerous orphaned bits and pieces from removed mods, multiple versions of some tracks, and individual cars that, while fun, didn't fit any class;  it was simpler to back up custom files, wipe out everything else and start over, installing only what I knew i would use.  A second install of GTR2 for P&G has remained clean, though a few tracks disappeared during the purge.  GTL is rarely used, so little modded;  it's basically there to install things I'll convert to GTR2.  rFactor is a relatively recent addition, initially just for the GP37 mod (very disappointing), but kept for an assortment of open-wheel mods not available for any other sim.  Rally Trophy is lightly modded but takes little space, relatively, and is still frequently driven.  RBR is fun, once you actually get in a car on a track, but the abysmal kludge of menus to get there is odious (hadn't the developers ever heard of that odd little device known as a "mouse");  there's only one major mod, and it is a kludge on top of a kludge;  this sim gets installed and uninstalled with monotonous regularity, just can't make up my mind.  N2k3 is still there for when I want to run around in circles, it only recognizes 120 tracks, no matter how many are installed, so cleanup was easy, and I only have one carset for each of the four physics;  have two separate installs of the GTP mod, one default (with many added cars) and one with the Smiffden Indycar mod converted to it.  What I really need is a mod to give me thirty hours in a day.

[Gui]

rFactor 2 has a couple of historic F1 cars but you will sorely miss the circuits and the AI from GPL. If you find GPL realistic then you won't notice the wildly varying (mis)representations of these cars. As far as immersive overall packages go, we don't have a quality replacement yet. If you are looking for something newer and maybe easier to upkeep, though while still lacking, Automobilista - or the previous iteration, Stock Car Extreme - may be something to research.

Despite being old, GPL's graphics are consistent and the cars and tracks fit in their world while you will find inconsistency with newer games as such content is driven by the community, with plenty of old source material conversions. Sometimes you do find a carefully recreated circuit which is much closer to its real life counterpart than 99.9999999% of all GPL circuits.

[Mark Jones]

I got rfactor2 a while ago for the 917 and the three group C cars from makcorp, and they are all totally fantastic. The problem is that they are not being raced online, online focus in more modern sims is primarily gt3 cars. Rf2 has the sixties sports cars, f1 cars but there's something not quite right about them, as if the tyres are made of rock or something. As others have said, tracks are very disappointing as well. There just isn't anywhere near the diversity that we have in GPL. Assetto Corsa seems to be along the same lines.

[Gui]

If you want a reasonable Group C experience, your only hope is the GTPC 1984 mod in Automobilista or its port in rFactor 2. For circuits and a series around it, you must sacrifice quality for content and check out mods for rFactor 1. Or sacrifice even more on modernity and go for the original Prototype C mod for F1 Challenge 99-02.

Edited by Gui, Aug 11 2020 - 10:13 AM.