57 replies to this topic

[M Needforspeed]

I gave him all the screen size, the bezels thickness, my distance to the screen, and here attached the results and his remarks on the FOV ideal position.

  I will disable GPL Shift, set the FOV in GEM and post a shot of what is displayed.

I am less and less sure that the optimal FOV set at 92° to get a more "natural"  driving be the best to reduce motion sickness !!!

Attached Files

•  one2fwee FOV calculations.JPG   95.1K   29 downloads

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 21 2020 - 10:10 AM.

[John Woods]

Guessing a correct by science FOV, that places virtual objects in spatial focus of time and space, consistent with real objects and real space, (so when the user offers inputs the display and FFB feedback responses are consistent with reality), should therefore be less inducement to suffer motion sickness as a consequence of hardware configuration.

[Saiph]

M Needforspeed, on Feb 21 2020 - 10:07 AM, said:

......
I am less and less sure that the optimal FOV set at 92° to get a more "natural"  driving be the best to reduce motion sickness !!!

Unfortunately, it's possible that the best method for reducing the motion sickness might be to go back to just using a single-screen setup. FOV, viewing distance etc may not have much of an effect.

Motion sickness is caused by two sections of your brain having an argument with each other. The visual cortex (connected to your eyes) looks at the triple-screen view, and thinks that you're really in a car. However, the section of your brain that deals with motion and balance (connected to your inner ear), doesn't feel the usual g-forces which you should experience when you are accelerating, braking or turning. So when you're driving GPL, those two sections of your brain are having a fight over what you are "really" doing. This can lead to a feeling of nausea.

With a single-screen setup, the peripheral region of your vision can see the area surrounding the screen, and it "realises" that you're actually sitting in a fixed room, not in a car. So now your eyes match the opinion of your balance mechanism, and there's no longer any conflict.

(This is also why it's not a good idea for some people to read while travelling in a car. If you're looking down at a book, your eyes don't see the world moving past outside the car, and the visual cortex starts to think that you're sitting in an ordinary, stationary seat. Meanwhile, your balance mechanism can feel the car moving, and so once again an argument starts between the two sections of the brain. This is what leads to car sickness.)

[John Woods]

As one of those lifelong incapable of reading a book in a car, have wondered many times whether discipline and habit could have eventually overcome the disability.
One thing for sure, no rides at the state fair carnivals.

Happens to me while racing and using a single screen, albeit very big, +/- 1.5x width of many triple screen setups?

What's happening there on the single screen seems as Saiph describes.
Saiph explains what it is we need to focus.

When racing recognition of motion sickness first occurring must be caught early and immediately brought to an end by entering critical recovery mode.



1. Immediately project awareness into the virtual space and grip firmly onto intention.
2. Do not let go of your imagination that you are in car on track looking ahead.
3. Drive "mechanically" until the feeling passes.
4. Rely on (maybe more) FFB for assistance in placing yourself in virtual space.

Edited by John Woods, Feb 22 2020 - 09:40 AM.

[M Needforspeed]

John , Saiph

be granted your advices, analysis and remarks about your own experience are registered as hard in the brain as the motion sickness.
John,sorry but there are some subtleties in your litterature I don't understand clearly. Will ring at DeepL for help.


for everyone that comes here, pics of what you get with this 7680 resolution
1/2 = 78 GPL / Default = looks like the Eagle front track is larger than in RL
3/4 = 92
5 Shift Default
6 Shift Min
7 Shift Max

Apart using it for the Act Labs shifter, didn't have a look before at GPL Shift settings of FOV and POV

At the moment,you get an idea of the results setting the FOV at the default 78  and 92 in GEM

Then using GPL Shift FOV settings, here the results by Default, and the MIN and MAX FOV available by scrolling the arrows. Didn't find what are the FOV numbers range with GPL Shift.How is it possible there are so high FOV only ?

I set it on 1 in the gpl shift.ini, but so far left shift + arrow key = the POV don't work; And both with 92 and 78, as you see, the seat position is a serious candidate for  tests and tweaks ! POV utility ain't luxury, here !
Maybe POV won't work with 1440 vertical reso ?

Attached Files

•  FOV 78 .JPG   104.11K   63 downloads
•  FOV 78.JPG   110.33K   65 downloads
•  FOV 92 .JPG   109.55K   61 downloads
•  FOV 92.JPG   113.83K   59 downloads
•  GPL Shift DEFAULT FOV.JPG   95.38K   59 downloads
•  gpl shift MIN FOV.JPG   92.11K   62 downloads
•  GPL Shift MAX FOV.JPG   91.64K   51 downloads

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 22 2020 - 02:28 PM.

[John Woods]

Trying to say it is not, (or not entirely, if at all), a triple screen or an FOV issue.

It is immersion/focus concern, jmho.
It is physiological.

Which might be helped by increasing FFB and "putting your body into it" if that assists the inner ear thinking something is really going on?
(in core.ini mine is set at 40 with a little bit of latency)

BTW, it could be steering ratio issue?
Try setting at max so display moves slower left/right.
(in general, mine is typically around 22, depending on track and setup maybe a few clicks more or less, which seems also to make it easier to feel the slip angles...hehe)


Neat setup!



..

Edited by John Woods, Feb 22 2020 - 11:03 AM.

[M Needforspeed]

summarize is most of the time the best thing !

yes, maybe the reason why we never experience vertigo looking at the window from a small plane, and have it looking down from a tower

No FFB on this steering

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 22 2020 - 11:01 AM.

[M Needforspeed]

here my GPLshift.ini

a remark on how to set the POV is welcome

Attached Files

•  GPLshift.ini   38.28K   4 downloads

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 22 2020 - 11:51 AM.

[John Woods]

Guessing, there is a unique POV for each FOV at given driver position.

Based on this, observe that if POV is too far forward driver may/will turn in early and think car is oversteering?
Or if too far back, understeering?

And if way off, maybe a little disoriented?

Cannot imagine no FFB.
It would be like the biggest "physical" part of this virtual reality is missing.

What I got.

Edited by John Woods, Feb 22 2020 - 12:15 PM.

[Bob Simpson]

I don’t think that POV and FOV are related. FOV is like using a magnification at the extreme to enlarge object sizes in the distance but POV is simply like leaning forward or backward so that you see more or less of the cockpit/mirrors with no effect on FOV.

[M Needforspeed]

yes and thanks to come here Bob , from what I have read in others topics FOV and POV are strictly set independently

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 22 2020 - 02:01 PM.

[M Needforspeed]

John Woods, on Feb 22 2020 - 10:45 AM, said:

BTW, it could be steering ratio issue?
Try setting at max so display moves slower left/right.
(in general, mine is typically around 22, depending on track and setup maybe a few clicks more or less, which seems also to make it easier to feel the slip angles...hehe)

John,

will try 22 and post results

pointing at steering,with such large objects and large cockpit now, I can tell you ultralinear steering settings are mandatory . Because with any other linearity setting, eyes see as if the latency has increased  .That's particularly noticable at an hairpin, WITH NON LINEAR and FOV set at 92 ( then, wld be worse using lower one !), where now such a big object as the dashboard moves and turn after the action on the wheel .Disturbing to keep concentration .

Tried playing on one screen and downscaling at 1920 X 1080 with the same non linear setting,and it is harder to see the effect.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 23 2020 - 08:11 AM.

[KARTM]

its a french wheel  "speedway" isnt it and theres no force feedback at that price its a ripoff

[M Needforspeed]

KARTM, on Feb 22 2020 - 06:21 PM, said:

its a french wheel  "speedway" isnt it and theres no force feedback at that price its a ripoff

I live at 20 minuts from Speedway, now Speedwayland  home.
Going  18 years back, at least a lone handicrafting man, Max Diolaiti  had the merit to produce those reliable wheels in full metal with leather.No subcontractors, and all components, including potentiometers suppliers where locals.  Price then was around 250 € VAT included.The force is only linear, ( set directly on windows gameport), using  two simple strong springs. FFB offers then where rather rare and not well rendering the effects expected. The gap of the costs to make them in  a western european country ,France, compared with China offers was greater, then.  

Implementing FFB wld have costed a lot for this fabricator limited tools.

Philippe, do you remember the topics on how FFB was requested for the icy GPL game, but not acclaimed by alls ?

  Now, I shld go for one, but keeping and mounting the Ferrari 1967 exact sized and shaped steering.That's an add on Max did at my request, as the original diameter of speedway wheels were smaller

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 23 2020 - 07:04 AM.

[KARTM]

they are still in business but now they are near a 1000 dollars  thats a lot  ,,its like years ago with the thomas wheel  many were big fan of them , they were expensive had no force feedback  not my cup of tea , in many way the force feedback , when its not too strong with the good tuning  replace in part the "seat of the pant" its the main feedback for the grip especially the rear, im with Logitech wich i believe is by far the best deal , but if you want custom wheel i guess thrustmaster would be the right choice

Edited by KARTM, Feb 23 2020 - 07:14 AM.

[M Needforspeed]

alls are availables https://www.speedwayl...nd.com/store/  but not in phase with what is expected by simracers on this smaller than we think market !
( you have the price, around 360 € for the steerings) , but this kind of business is a trap and you have the double crazy crossed effects of losing money and unsatisfied simracers asking for always more and more technology and features on the product.True that Speedway was only oriented on reliability and special simple looking products.
https://www.theracing...au-gt-tour.html
  a  few comments down the page sum up the problem of no FFB.

Max Diolaiti now is producing a simpler but far more financially sustainable game with a registered/patended gameplay, the BALLTRIX , on a separate company https://balltrix.com/
....still using his "know how" for aluminum and leather !!

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 23 2020 - 08:21 AM.

[John Woods]

It is possible on some FFB brands to mount custom steering wheels?

As I understand, Grand Prix Legends FFB transmits front tire patch data?

A driver can use this to simulate, whether desired or not, full body muscle effects in coincidence with steering wheel inputs, (to the driver's hands), and pivot driver inputs, (wheel, brake, throttle), to appropriately implement the next virtual time and space moment.


immersion²

(Found my G25 on local CL for not much $)

Edited by John Woods, Feb 23 2020 - 09:32 AM.

[M Needforspeed]

John Woods, on Feb 23 2020 - 09:09 AM, said:

It is possible on some FFB brands to mount custom steering wheels?

As I understand, Grand Prix Legends FFB transmits front tire patch data.




immersion²

I don't know.Fixing or welding a rounded plate on the steering axle, and then screwing the 8 screws of the wheel on it, is  maybe possible, on a Heusinkveld wheel

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 23 2020 - 09:30 AM.

[KARTM]

John Woods, on Feb 23 2020 - 09:09 AM, said:

It is possible on some FFB brands to mount custom steering wheels?

As I understand, Grand Prix Legends FFB transmits front tire patch data.

A driver can use this to simulate, whether desired or not, full body muscle effects in coincidence with steering wheel inputs, (to the driver's hands), and pivot driver inputs, (wheel, brake, throttle), to appropriately implement the next virtual time and space moment.

Also. some time ago set driver POV at car CoG 0,0 and only raise driver cam to establish view.



immersion²

John Woods, on Feb 23 2020 - 09:09 AM, said:

It is possible on some FFB brands to mount custom steering wheels?





immersion²

yes thrusmaster have a large choice of wheels ,  but for Logitech  theres some adapter on the market so people can use real wheel momo and other brand , theres many on Ebay

Edited by KARTM, Feb 23 2020 - 09:28 AM.

[John Woods]

Probably, in some way, FFB calms the inner ear?