22 replies to this topic

[M Needforspeed]

.. or the end of the 36 fps / 60 fps dispute

Thanks goes to One2fwee for his advices about running GPL on triple screen and his FOV calculations. He warned me and on the topics here that GPL isn't triple screens compatible.To make it simple, he means you will have the objects elongation on the side screens.  Unlike other sims, multi view isn't possible.Triple screen is activated by extanding the desktop using NVidia Surround or using Eyefinity for AMD graphic cards. Pics attached of what you see on a starting grid, with cars on each side,  to illustrate.Anyway, triple screen advantages are  setting the FOV  at higher degrees numbers,and at the same time keeping the gain of a super ultra wide possibility to see the cars coming on each side, and a bettered sense of speed.

Thanks to Philippe ( KARTM) for your hardware selection that saved the painful job of selecting one after one from scratch

  I installed the triple screens today with my new rig. this new stuff is dedicated to the Great Game only ...Was wondering if those 7680 X 1440  wldn't be too much demanding for the hardware.A little anxious about the results

here the specs used, an average recent hardware gaming solution, not at all an high end :

Motherboard : Asus  Prime H310 M
CPU : i5 9600 K ( 6 cores) - 3.7Ghz / 4.6Ghz
CPU cooling : Cooler Master side fan.
GFX : Zotac GTX 1660 Ti / 6GB / DDR6 Amp
RAM : 16 Gb DDR 4/3000 Mhz
500 GB SSD M2 NvMe - all GPL stuff and utilities Installed on this SSD drive.( connection to M2 and NvMe pipelines is faster than on a SATA port)
Power supply : Corsair 750 W
OS : Win 10 64 bits
Monitors : 3 Acer Predator  27 " / 2560X1440 / IPS (  exist also with a TN)
first tests with those display settings :

NVidia G Sync monitor native enabled
resolution : 144 Hz - later, did test at 120 Hz and 60 hz, and 144 Hz is the smoothest.( 36 fps X 4 = 144 )
NVidia Surround enabled .GEM tweaked to display on center monitor is easy

1 - GPL menu display the 7680 X 1440 resolution and as soon you enter the game, the three monitors run flawlessly without any extra tweak.I set the bezel correction in Nvidia control panel, and it calculated the new 7768 compensation resolution ( see pic). I will  go back to a strictly flat screen in line arrangement , but here I tested with side screens little angled.Will perform tests with various other angles to see if the driving immersion is different

2 - 36 fps and 60 fps are easily displayed whatever carsets/ Tracks ( Spa 67, I O M ect..)/High reso textured cars used at the Back Of the Grid / Full grid

3 - Overall impression is 36 fps is now smooth as silk : 7680 /144 HZ/ G Sync enabled is a winning formula; really entering a new 36 fps experience ! There is no more interest to display the game at 60 fps and its AI's behaviour problems( at least if you play with a full grid of AI's or online).Stuttering has gone forever.Luckily, I have read that G Sync is effective for games with variable or fixed FPS starting at 35 fps ( ouf !! )to 165 fps on those monitors.

Didn't expected so much, that 's like discovering GPL again and again. Eyes never get tired, the game is a new immersive experience, everything moves and come to the eyes smoothly, cleanly and sharp .IPS does the job about color and contrast renderings.

  G Sync is efficient and do the job. Honestly, 60 fps various patches with that kind of configuration are  things of the past....

I can honestly say if you use a similar hardware/ monitor config, this is the end of the 36 fps versus 60 fps dispute.

If you have enough room at home, go for it !! some pics attached of my new config.As usual, my little camera shots are bad to render what is really displayed.

Cockpit view aside, all GPL default or edited cameras are in a serious need to be edited again and replaced with more suitable ones.Pics attached of the pits camera view at Spa 67.

Will post later various cameras view. In many places, you see less of the action, of the surroundings, and cars are far too BIG !

Attached Files

•  GPL display resolution.JPG   88.27K   92 downloads
•  GEM .JPG   127.92K   112 downloads
•  displaying GEM conveniently on triple screens .JPG   121.4K   115 downloads
•  cockpit view 1 .JPG   104.91K   120 downloads
•  drving view .JPG   100.66K   126 downloads
•  starting grid view FOV 122 .JPG   113.73K   120 downloads
•  starting grid view 122 Right screen .JPG   72.98K   104 downloads
•  starting grid view FOV 122 Left screen .JPG   97.83K   97 downloads
•  overlapping left screen .JPG   78.2K   98 downloads
•  overlapping 2 left and center screen .JPG   93.67K   102 downloads
•  pits view 1 .JPG   108.04K   106 downloads
•  pits view 2 .JPG   120.74K   105 downloads

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 20 2020 - 02:42 AM.

[MK3424]

Neat!

Although the 60fps might be prefered because of the better 'smoothness' of the visuals..

You will have issues with ai drivers, as they were hardcoded with 36 fps.

Although i don't speak out of experience with triple screens...

I do have now experience with an ultrawide (2560x1080)29" screen, and ever since i don't wanna revert back to my normal widescreen monitor!

[M Needforspeed]

believe me,60 fps ain't visually smoother at 7680. Was one of the purpose of my post and tests above.

If I put those remarks,that's because in fact 60 fps AI's  have much more flaws than the 36 fps originals ( tweaked a lot by modders)

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 17 2020 - 06:57 PM.

[KARTM]

youre right 36fps is more then enough as long as its   steady , and with youre  new rig it will be rock solid , but personally i will stick to a one monitor installation

[Saiph]

60fps is usually much better for me. I enjoy solo hotlapping so 60fps AI problems don't bother me. If I do decide to race against the AI, then I usually swap to 36fps, but not always. The choice of 36fps or 60fps is entirely up to the individual, depending on their circumstances and how they want to drive in GPL. Neither 36fps nor 60fps are superior in all cases. They are both useful alternatives. So for mature GPL drivers there shouldn't really be any need for a "dispute". Just pick the one that's best for you at the time.

[Millennium]

That's a fantastic setup you have there!

However I don't fully agree on the topic of 36 fps. I also play on a 144hz monitor (with a similair freesync range) and while it is a little smoother it's defenitely not as smooth as 60 fps.
I don't mind playing at 36 fps, but I run of all my modern games on at least a locked 90 fps and again that feels much smoother than 60. For me it's above +100 fps where it becomes harder to distinguish the difference between refreshrates like 120hz or 165hz. (Well, in racing games at least because that usually has quite calm camera movements compared to first person shooters)

Edited by Millennium, Feb 18 2020 - 10:26 AM.

[camber]

Great setup! Thanks for sharing

[M Needforspeed]

Saiph, on Feb 18 2020 - 08:48 AM, said:

. So for mature GPL drivers there shouldn't really be any need for a "dispute". Just pick the one that's best for you at the time.

Saiph,

of course, at RSC as here, it was friendly disagreements and always expressed with courtesy.I have only memories many stayed firmly on their position on both 36 fps and 60 fps respective pros and cons.Take my starting words as a slogan !

Millennium, on Feb 18 2020 - 10:20 AM, said:

That's a fantastic setup you have there!

However I don't fully agree on the topic of 36 fps. I also play on a 144hz monitor (with a similair freesync range) and while it is a little smoother it's defenitely not as smooth as 60 fps.
I don't mind playing at 36 fps, but I run of all my modern games on at least a locked 90 fps and again that feels much smoother than 60. For me it's above +100 fps where it becomes harder to distinguish the difference between refreshrates like 120hz or 165hz. (Well, in racing games at least because that usually has quite calm camera movements compared to first person shooters)

thks for your feedback about your 144 Hz experience .As you,I feel a difference, but TINY TINY !!
Perhaps we have to take into account two factors about those ultra ultra large view ( 1.80 meter here). Objects look both bigger and sharper, when they move it must have an effect on the quiet ambient and the eyes strain. Tearing is lesser on telegraph poles that are good for testing .Cars differences in skins texturing are more easy to identify.They look cleaner.Someone wld say maybe too clinical cleaner ?? Crazy thing how my shots are unable to render what eyes see and 3D object contrasts and brightness level isn't rendered at all.
The level of smoothness reached with 36 fps is now largely high enough for me to be comfortable on a long session.

and for the rig, unless some unexpected uses in the future ( a new demanding racing game?... but my mind is blocked to GPL) this will certainly be my last equipment upgrade.From the start, it is a dedicated GPL thing.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 19 2020 - 05:02 PM.

[M Needforspeed]

here how the cams display for Pioujd 67 historical carset .No way to use anymore the numerous 16/9 resolutions edited cams who have been modders labor of love for all the others carsets as well !!

my job will be changing all this when I find free time to do it and upload them on the forum.Sharing them with others 48/9 ratio users who love looking at replays.For the two tracks cams mainly,I hope there is no limits to set the coordinates to a remote position from  the center of the monitor ...


  1 - Front cam

2/3 Roll Bar cam

4  - Rear  cam

5  - front suspension cam

6  - rear suspension cam

7 - TV1 at Stavelot Spa 67 with all adverts panels cut off

8/9 - TV2 entering La Source Spa 67. Traffic jam, isn' it ?

10 - F10 - Chase cam

Guess what is wrong ?

Attached Files

•  Front cam 7680 X 1440 .JPG   73.71K   54 downloads
•  Roll Bar cam 2 7680 X 1440 .JPG   101.25K   60 downloads
•  Roll Bar cam 7680 X 1440.JPG   93.25K   58 downloads
•  Rear Cam 7680 X 1440.JPG   77.34K   54 downloads
•  Front suspension cam 7680 X 1440 (2).JPG   65.02K   56 downloads
•  Rear Suspension cam 7680 X 1440 (2).JPG   76.65K   56 downloads
•  TV1 cam Stavelot 7680 X 1440 Spa 67.JPG   97.37K   58 downloads
•  TV2 cam 7680 X 1440 La source hairpin 2 (2).JPG   88.54K   61 downloads
•  TV2 cam 7680 X 1440 La source hairpin Spa 67 .JPG   59.49K   52 downloads
•  Chase Cam 7680 X 1440 .JPG   98.18K   47 downloads

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 19 2020 - 07:36 AM.

[KARTM]

i see a corsair 750w power supply ,what about the casing and cooling

[M Needforspeed]

Casing is a simple Antec 202 with blue lights fans as you can see on the pic 2 above
For CPU cooling, a Cooler Master : a thick low cost alu radiator 11 cm high from CPU socket to the top, with one fan located on the side.
Seller at the shop said 600 W wld be largely enough as PC components now are more effectives and less demanding on power.I discovered power supply now aren't located on the top but at the bottom of the casing ( better to keep outside wire near the floor)
The HDD on the right is a 4Terabit but I 'll use it only for storage purpose.I didn't follow hardware evolution, but it seems now with SSD and compacts Mobo and GFX / no sound card/no CDrom, casings inside now look empty ! Probably air flow is easier

Attached Files

•  Antec 202.JPG   31.09K   45 downloads
•  101_1732.JPG   150.07K   59 downloads
•  101_1731.JPG   157.48K   54 downloads

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 19 2020 - 01:59 PM.

[KARTM]

yep thats a lot of cooling   ,a cooler master that i dont have

[M Needforspeed]

ah, and your Thermaltake wasn't available.
For the CPU, the difference in price wasn't so high, that's why the i5 9600k instead of the i3

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 19 2020 - 06:06 AM.

[M Needforspeed]

post #8 edited with some inputs in bold about the way I feel the effects on the objects displayed.

https://srmz.racesimcentral.net/inde...18

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 19 2020 - 01:44 PM.

[M Needforspeed]

Screens arrangement on a strictly flat line.

First serious driving impression after 3 Hours of testing this afternoon at Spa67 where tracks edge move rather fast but with no brutal change of direction as on a city track, except at La Source.Distance of the head position to the center of the central screen : around 80/83 cm.
A friend came at home;He raced GPL a lot in the past. He drove first and was quite immediatly sick

After driving for a while,I feel the seasick.Quick lateral moves or tight corners with front BIG objects moving fast is a factor that triggers this feeling.
Tried all the range of FOV settings using GPL Shift and scrolling with CTRL + Arrows.There are positions less prone to seasick.It ain't with the narrower FOV nor with the larger one.With the larger,the surroundings objects on side monitors scroll quickly and it is surely a factor that can increase the feeling
But zooming at max and thus decreasing the perceived speed ain't the solution either. That's a FOV setup somewhere in between where the seasick is lowered, and the tingling sensation in the neck and head are decreasing.After a while, the sensation is low and sufferable. But with the feeling it can return later.

That ain't a question of smoothness,as the game is really flowing as it never did before on my other GPL installs.

   I hope that some GPLers who have already used a triple screen ( but rather with large HD screens) and come to SRMZ will be able to post their impressions.On the topics related,I haven't yet read someone posting about those nausea sensations...

Is there later and after regular training,a gyroscopic adaptation of the brain or something alike? Any technical / scientific explanations are welcome.

I hope also and above all that my feelings will be useful for any triple candidates.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 20 2020 - 03:41 PM.

[KARTM]

did you keep your bills for the monitors , you could always come back to the good old one monitor instalation , did you try to change angle of the monitors at more steep angle

[M Needforspeed]

KARTM, on Feb 20 2020 - 02:50 PM, said:

did you keep your bills for the monitors , you could always come back to the good old one monitor instalation , did you try to change angle of the monitors at more steep angle

Philippe,

yes, but I want to test further and I don't want to give up until I know more.Wld you act differently ?

First, I will perform different monitor settings.

there is already a thing that is clear : if I set the distance to roughly 1.50 meter of the screen, there is a very good chance of everything returning to a normal state.When we looked at the AI's at a distance behind the seat, return to a good viewing experience.

And will see with different angles

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 20 2020 - 03:23 PM.

[John Woods]

Yes, definitely noticed it for years.
Sadly for me have suffered all my life from motion sickness which prevents me from being a rally navigator for more than about 40 seconds. Driving in reality is not an issue.

Driving in Grand Prix Legends is an issue when distraction conflicts with immersion, creating two perspectives. (jmo).

(Someone is at the door...)

Edited by John Woods, Feb 21 2020 - 09:19 AM.

[M Needforspeed]

https://www.isrtv.co...iple-24-screens

https://developer.va...i/Field_of_View

small topic but useful.

3 X 24" motion sickness .It can be only worse on 3X 27", but reading all the posts gives me new hope !

....your body can get the habit with the time
....there are pills
.....apparently, angled sidescreens can reduce it.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Feb 21 2020 - 07:09 AM.

[John Woods]

Truly think this is an issue of immersion and POV.

Many friends watching 110in projected display must stand or sit as close as possible to directly behind driver or can suffer rapid and extreme motion sickness, forcing them to quickly leave the room!

Recall first attempts at VR?

Have lost immersive focus when driving on-line race, while daydreaming along holding position, and had to suffer through slight motion disorientation or risk a DNF for stupidity of forgetting to maintain focus.

Exactly why I lost a podium to Du Lima at Wiesbaden, btw.
Being stupid.
Plus he wouldn't give up.
JMO.

MV, given that you have the expert advising you on display calibration, have to assume that is not the issue.

Try looking into the virtual space and setting your sight and focus inside of it, some constant distance ahead of the car, that seems a comfortable and natural focus point, and ignore reality completely.

Edited by John Woods, Feb 21 2020 - 09:53 AM.