29 replies to this topic

[Bob Russell]

Hi all,
I was hoping to come here to find some help with this project I am working on.

Some of you may have know me as Punko353,  I was the lead person on Team Players Virtual Garage which was a Rfactor mod group I started .  Prior to that I worked on the GPL 55 mod. I ended up leaving because at the time I was the only one working on it and I ran into some issues that couldn't be resolved.  I am happy to see that it has been finished and know it was a long time comming.

The last year or so I have been working on doing some high detail models of the 55 cars just for my own enjoyment and to hone my skills using Blender (I now use Linux exclusively.

The reason I created this thread is I was hoping some of you may be able to help me with some of the details on the cars.  I have a lot of pictures of the cars but not the detail I am looking for. I am modeling engine, suspension, frame and details you can only see by removing the body.

Before getting into specifics I would like to find out if there is someone that can actually help.

As I said, this is not for any sim but for my own enjoyment and to help me learn Blender better.

Thanks,
Bob

Here are some shots of the Gordini T16 I am working on right now.

[tjc]

Hi Bob...

First off I have to say, the model looks absolutely fantastic!

I`ve often wondered myself where modelers get the kind of information on the details you`re talking about. I can find a lot of images of the cars I`ve tried to model but I`ve always found it quite difficult to find images that show the hidden details.

I`ve used Blender in the past and quite liked it... I`m now using Max 2020.

Best of luck with your project, if I find any info that I think will help I`ll post it up.

tj

Edited by tjc, Feb 02 2020 - 12:02 PM.

[Bob Russell]

@ tjc,
I was using Windows and Max when I was modding but that was the only reason I had Windows.  
For sim racing mods there is no reason to detail the stuff you can't see so it has never been a big deal but with this project It is required.

I know I can make the details up but it would be nice to get it as accurate as I can.


These are the suspension details I am looking for:

Front:
Not sure I have the "coils" right and am not sure if there are really 2 on each side (upper and lower suspension arms).

Rear:

No idea how the suspension ties into the frame.  It is my understanding the Gordini has an actual frame with rails (as opposed to a tube frame)

I am not sure where the fuel tank is located.  I know most other 55 cars the tank sits directly behind the driver seat but I know the Gordini had a very high center of gravity so not sure if they put the tank in a lower position.


Thanks for any helpp

Cheers,
Bob

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[Lord]

Have you tried the REVS gallery? It has a lot of interesting stuff... that's where I ended up screenshotting everything I needed for the '58 mod and (soon to be) '51 F1 and 500cc

https://library.revs...te.org/digital/

[Bob Russell]

Thanks Lord,  I will have a look and check it out.

Cheers,
Bob

[jgf]

Rummaging through my archives (over 4000 auto related bookmarks alone, lol) I found this - https://primotipo.com/2019/08/

A photo of the front suspension/engine area and a couple of cutaway drawings;  many photos in the article are credited to Getty Images, so that might be another place to look.  Also consider contacting the vintage racing leagues;  while I know of no T16s active in the US there are a couple still being raced in Europe (Marc Valvekens was racing his as recently as last year).  From my experience with SVRA and HRS owners are quite happy to share info and stories about their cars.

[Bob Russell]

@jgf,
Thanks for the link,  I have most of the getty images but it looks like they have a lot more than that so I will have a look.

I have been looking for images of the car under repairs or restoration but so far have only found one image of the T15 with its skin off,  That is how I found out where the heck they put the supercharger.

Cheers,
Bob

[Luigi 70]

Hi Bob, this is the best I have found ...
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2o4jy458c/

[Bob Russell]

Lugi,  Thanks for that link,  I do have those pictures and have to say they are about the best shots of suspension that I have found.

As a mater of fact I am using one of them right now to rework the front suspension.

Here is a progress shot

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[Luigi 70]

Great job Bob, it's pleasure to help you ...
Anyway, returning to the speech of 1955 mod (rfactor) , I wanted to tell you images that I posted in the topic...
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2luzix09o/
are nothing more than a conversion of my models of the 1955 mod for F1C....
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2w0af48zg/
Nothing has been released for rfactor, so if you want you can complete your great work!

[Bob Russell]

Luigi,  I saw those models posted back when I was working on the mod.  If you somehow thought I was upset that I thought it was ripped off that is NOT the case,  It was clear to me those were not my models and I never had any issue if someone wanted to do the same mod.  

I quit modding rFactor because we had just released the Gurney Eagle Tribute mod for an upcoming event I was attending at the Daytona 24 hr race for Grand Am.  I was there with Chris Constitine of CXC simulator co, (full motion simulators).  I had the chance to meet Dan Gurney and we had the Eagle on the sim.  But I digress...  3 days after we released the sim, someone sent me pictures of the mod converted to another sim.  They were bragging that there was nothing I could do about it.

That was the last straw for me I I shut down Team Players.

So there was never an issue with what you did.  You didn't rip anything off so all if fair game

Cheers,
Bob

As for continuing the work on rFactor 55 mod,   We were about a week away from releasing it,  everything was done except some fine tuning on the Season mode getting all the drivers and numbers correct.    I have no plans on ever releasing it now,  rFactor 1 is pretty much a dead sim.

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Edited by Bob Russell, Feb 05 2020 - 05:38 PM.

[Luigi 70]

I understand your decision, and I find it completely acceptable ...
I must admit that thanks to talents like you, Dave Sabre and Vincent Moyet, I started creating models for F1C... you was been my "inspiring muse" ...
Thank you for this ...

[marco lenarduzzi]

Have a look at these Bob  https://www.flickr.c...2/39146561254/
https://www.flickr.c...x59/9877595876/
https://www.flickr.c...x59/7127953885/

[Bob Russell]

Marco,  Thanks for the links.  The one pic of the rear is about the best I think I will get.  Unfortunately it doesn't show much of what is going on inside

At this point I don't think there are any pics of the rear body off.  I have  been searching for well over a month now and with the help of you guys I have gotten more details than I had so that is good.

Last night I decided to just start making up what I think it could be but I'm not confident about it.

Here is what I have so far and am open to suggestions.

I am pretty sure the round can looking things act like torsion bars but self contained.  I think I remember reading somewhere they have coil springs in them to provide torque.  With the upper and lower arms being very similar to the front it seems as though it should have them.

I am open to any ideas and comments.

Thanks again everyone that has posted pics and and offered suggestions.

Cheers,
Bob

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[Luigi 70]

Theo Page’ cutaway drawing of a T16...

[Bob Russell]

Luigi, I have that drawing but I think that is an experimental concept done when they were thinking of the T32.  If you look close it has inboard brakes and has shock absorbers.

The closest I found is doing a search on Fiat Simca and found this image of a much earlier setup but I think it may be closer to what the Gordini has.

Thanks for searching for that pic though.

Cheers,
Bob

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[Lee200]

Bob, I did a lot of research on the Gordini Type 16 when we were making the '55 mod.  I'll go back and look at my notes, but if my memory is correct, the rear end was a live axle suspended by a single sideways leaf spring.  It used Messier rotary dampers which are those round looking things your are talking about.  Sideways movement was controlled by a Watt linkage.  Some cars also had a rear antiroll bar.  I'd never heard before of using an antiroll bar on a live axle, but Gordini did.

I believe I have a cutaway drawing of the rear end somewhere and will post if I can find it.

[KARTM]

Bob Russell, on Feb 07 2020 - 02:04 PM, said:

Luigi, I have that drawing but I think that is an experimental concept done when they were thinking of the T32.  If you look close it has inboard brakes and has shock absorbers.

The closest I found is doing a search on Fiat Simca and found this image of a much earlier setup but I think it may be closer to what the Gordini has.

Thanks for searching for that pic though.

Cheers,
Bob

what ive read on a french site is that it was a project of sportscar with some similarity with the t32  never build it was after the closure of the team in 56 , an attempt to create a buz to find money  to restart the team ,didnt work

[KARTM]

https://www.flickr.c...x59/9877595876/ , i thinq that the lower arm  is the exterior  end of the transversal leafspring

[Lee200]

Here is the cutaway drawing I was speaking of although I'm not sure it is of a Type 16.

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