203 replies to this topic

[Stefan Roess]

I had this texture error on the tires in the past while beta testing (I think it was also on a 55 car) and had posted a screenshot at the private forum.
But I don`t remember what caused it and how the mod team fixed it. And I can`t find my old post anymore.

Edited by Stefan Roess, May 10 2017 - 02:01 AM.

[Alan Davies]

samuelw, on May 09 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

2nd try with bandicam gplc55 2017-05-09 16-01-41-945.jpg

You've worn the rubber down to the canvas is all;  call into Quick Fit and they'll sort it

[ginetto]

If I enter Crystal Palace everything is OK then enter any other track and all is smooth.

samuelw, you need to delete your gpl\tracks\crystal folder and reinstall the track; I bet everything will be OK for you too

[gliebzeit]

That is what I advised him to do, back at Post #38.  

Edited by gliebzeit, May 10 2017 - 05:31 AM.

[samuelw]

I uninstalled CP.  I must say GPL works in a very mysterious way.  CP was not loaded but the attempt "temporarily corrupted" the tires on the Vanwall when it went fast but not when it went slow.  BTW as I mentioned CP corrupted 67x as well.  In 67x the player needed speed for fancy treads but some of the AI cars had stationary corrupted treads.  Anyway I'm sorry to have troubled everyone with a problem that really doesn't need fixing.
Sam

[ginetto]

No trouble at all here samuelw

[Bruce]

The cars are way, WAY, too fragile: The slightest bump on a wheel, or even on a nose-to-tail, causes "suspension damage" and the car then becomes virtually un-driveable.
There also appears to be some bounding-box extensions beyond the perimeter of the car itself.

Edited by Bruce, May 10 2017 - 10:24 PM.

[Bruce]

I am compelled to comment on the brake fade effect:-

In my humble opinion, you've gone a bit excessive with this in that in real-life very few drivers would have ever completed a "brake-intensive" race such as the Nurburgring if their brakes faded as badly as that depicted in the simulation.

The maximum fade (red light) level does not appear to take into account the cooling effect on the finned drums of a high speed run after a heavily-braked corner.
Nurburgring is a great example of this, as is Reims (with it's sharp-cornered, triangular layout).
On these two circuits, the red-light fade should recover a lot faster than it does, due to the maximum speed runs after the corners.

[Paddy the Irishman]

Bruce, I am afraid  I must agree with you on the fade..See my post # 23

[Alan Davies]

Bruce, on May 11 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

I am compelled to comment on the brake fade effect:-

In my humble opinion, you've gone a bit excessive with this in that in real-life very few drivers would have ever completed a "brake-intensive" race such as the Nurburgring if their brakes faded as badly as that depicted in the simulation.

The maximum fade (red light) level does not appear to take into account the cooling effect on the finned drums of a high speed run after a heavily-braked corner.
Nurburgring is a great example of this, as is Reims (with it's sharp-cornered, triangular layout).
On these two circuits, the red-light fade should recover a lot faster than it does, due to the maximum speed runs after the corners.

I must agree with Sir  having just done some testing at Albi (my usual test track).  It takes 2 laps before the brakes overheat but after that when the indicator shows green the green condition does not mean the brakes have returned to the green condition at the beginning of the test but turn almost immediately to red when used.  Either the indicator should not return to green or the brakes need to perform the same as the green condition at the beginning of the test.

I have seen the contemporary report in another topic which is obviously right but, no offence intended, there is something not quite right in the way it's replicated in the 55 mod.
It's just like the over estimate of draft effect in earlier mods which was corrected.

Anyway LOVING 55 MOD

[PTRACER]

I kind of figured that the brakes were at "ambient temperature" when you begin the session (i.e. they're stone cold), but they wouldn't return to that temperature once warm because you're using them every so often. Although I agree, it does seem that once they go yellow/red for the first time, they go straight back to red again a lot easier the next time.

It can't be a "bug" as such, because it doesn't happen at Spa where there's sufficient time for the brakes to cool between corners. Perhaps the cooling effect just needs to be more pronounced?

[Brocky05]

right or wrong how do we know the brake fade is rubbish with this mod

has anyone driven a 55 f1 car irl just saying

[Bruce]

Sorry, folks, but the brake fade effect is excessive and is at such a level that it takes a lot of the enjoyment out of driving the 1955 cars.

Every track and road course on which I've driven (and I only play offline..against the AI) has resulted in bringing up the red light within two laps of the start of a session and from that point on, irrespective of how lightly used the brakes may be on subsequent laps, rarely is the green displayed .....mostly yellow and red.

You appear to have ignored the fact that brake-fade on drum-braked cars was/is caused by the drum expanding away from the shoes due to the heat yet returning to their normal clearances after a time of light or non-use, aided by the cooling effect of the air rushing past and over the drums when the car is at speed.

I drove a drum-braked car from 1964 through 1969 - the first car I owned with front disks was an MG (1972) and the first car I owned with four-wheel disks didn't enter my garage until 1984.
The all-drum car I owned (Hillman Imp GT) was also raced at club level and was fitted with standard drums (steel) but with heavy-duty brake linings (sintered) and "racing" brake fluid (high boiling point).
Fair enough...the speed at which this thing travelled  certainly didn't match that of a 1955 Lancia D50 or Mercedes W196 but it was pushed hard around the circuit (Amaroo) and never, ever suffered from fading to the point where the brake fluid boiled and the braking effect disappeared, never to return.

What you've attempted to replicate is to be admired but, for the sake of relieving some frustration and ensuring that we continue to get the most enjoyment out of this mod, in my opinion it needs to be tweaked.

Edited by Bruce, May 12 2017 - 12:19 AM.

[Stefan Roess]

Bruce, as you can imagine the team had long discussions about the brake fade.

Here is some stuff I have researched.

xxx, on Feb 05 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

If the drum brakes were capable of stopping at the end of the Mulsane then Mercedes would not have bothered with the big air brake they fitted.  After 8km of Mulsane straight the brakes would have been nice and cool so they clearly could not slow the car from 165 mph to 30mph, hence the need for the air brake.

xxx, on Feb 05 2017 - 08:11 PM, said:

So, the addition of an air brake is confirmation of inferior brakes and not an attempt to gain further advantage?

Me: That is what I also thought at first, but after some research it looks like Richard is right regarding the Mercedes Airbrake at Le Mans.


https://www.classicd...-auf-der-straße

Quote

GERMAN:
Sir Stirling Moss erinnert sich an seine Jagd im C-Type im Jahr 1952: "Die Scheibenbremsen waren unglaublich. Während Ferrari und Mercedes zwar alle einmal sehr gut anbremsen konnten, dann aber überhitzten, bremste der Jaguar wieder und immer wieder verlässlich das Tempo herunter. Die Mille Miglia war die Bewährungsprobe für das neue System. Tatsächlich war die Idee hierfür im Team entstanden und wir waren uns einig: wenn die Bremsen im Renneinsatz halten, sind sie gut für die Serienfertigung." Auch Norman Dewis erinnert sich: "Wir wurden zur technischen Abnahme gerufen und die Kommissare sahen erst das Auto und dann uns fragend an: habt Ihr keine Bremsen? Wo sind die Bremsen? Das Auto hat keine Bremsen! Und ich musste sie beruhigen: nein, das sind neue Bremsen. Wir mussten die Räder abnehmen und das System vorführen, da man uns nicht glauben wollte."

Quote

ENGLISH (Google Translation):
Sir Stirling Moss recalls his hunt at the C-Type in 1952: "The disc brakes were unbelievable. While Ferrari and Mercedes were able to brake very well, but then overheated, the Jaguar slowed down again and again. The Mille Miglia was the test for the new system. In fact, the idea was developed in the team, and we agreed that if the brakes are used in the race, they are good for serial production. " Norman Dewis also remembers, "We were called to the technical inspection, and the commissaries first saw the car and then asked us inquiringly: 'Do not you have brakes, where are the brakes?' The car has no brakes, These were new brakes, we had to take off the wheels and show the system because we were not supposed to believe it. "

To be continued...

Edited by Stefan Roess, May 12 2017 - 03:30 AM.

[Stefan Roess]

https://www.cnet.com...e-us-all-safer/

Quote

The C-Type almost missed out on being allowed to enter the 1952, event thanks to its unseen new brakes. The event scrutineers were unsure whether the new tech was permitted in the event. After some heroic battles with the competition and proving that the Jag's disc brakes were far, far superior to the drums run by other teams, Moss and Dewis had a race-ending accident around 100 miles from the finish. The brakes, after more than 11 hours of flat-out driving, were shot, but had worked well.

https://www.traumauto.../html/1202.html

Quote

GERMAN:
Der einzige nicht völlig zufriedenstellende Punkt des 300 SLR waren die Bremsen, weshalb sich die Techniker bei Daimler-Benz speziell für das Hochgeschwindigkeitsrennen in Le Mans (auf der langen Geraden wurden bis zu 300 km/h erreicht) etwas ganz besonderes ausdachten: Die hydraulische Luftbremse! Dabei handelte es sich um eine 0,7 Quadratmeter große Klappe hinter den Sitzen, die - am Heckteil des Rahmens befestigt - hydraulisch beim Bremsen aufgestellt wurde.

Quote

ENGLISH (Google translation):
The only not entirely satisfactory point of the 300 SLR were the brakes, which is why the technicians at Daimler-Benz devised a special concept for the high-speed racing in Le Mans (on the long straights up to 300 km / h): the hydraulic airbrake ! This was a 0.7-square-meter flap behind the seats, mounted on the rear of the frame, hydraulically when braking.