166 replies to this topic

[Michkov]

TL:DR The point of the demo should be to get people interested in the game, show them what it can do. Not overwhelm them with options, once they are hooked and herded to here we can provide solutions for the missing content.

Roo, on Jan 09 2016 - 02:11 AM, said:

Include the patches:
Letterbox
head movement
dirt-gear (olaf's)
weather
pit-stop
all 60fps patches needed for the various mods

Bernd Nowak, on Jan 09 2016 - 04:37 AM, said:

Just to help me a bit I have attached the following options of the 1.07 installer. The dark grey ones can be removed. The light yellows should maybe have other defaults. For sure the listed patches are not there because they are needed mostly for GEM. Which I need to find a smooth way to incorporate

If the rest should be more or less just be installed choosing the defaults and hence maybe removed from the options fine by me. The less options the better

I've recently written a short 04demo + GEM guide and the amount of settings and boxes ticked is a bit taunting for a newcomer IMO. That's why I think one of the main targets of a 16demo should be to be as simple as possible. Which means the least amount of choices possible. I'm willing to give the choice of install location but that's it haha.
When it comes to patches?/mods?(we really need a better name for those) lets keep it simple. Am I right that its possible to include a patched exe in the demo without the need for GEM? If so I'd only use those that dont effect the gameplay, so letterbox, 60fps(?), bobblehead, pitstop(?).

Bernd Nowak, on Jan 09 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

To add further. I checked the GEM&iGOR installation code and would refuse to create a package of GPL & Gem&iGOR. Especially because you can remove GEM&iGOR through the programs/apps depending on the Windows version you use. However, I would like to add a "user/car/resolution" page so that a new player would be created.
It would be useful for hints about the various player.ini settings which are "important".
If Stefan wouldn't mind he may would like to create an installation walk through adopted for this demo and GEM/iGor ...

Can you expand on that? Especially the ability to remove GEM via Windows programs/apps?

Continues below....

Edited by Michkov, Jan 11 2016 - 09:52 AM.

[Pete Gaimari]

How do you add the missing Papy tracks to the demo without the CD?

[Bernd Nowak]

Creating a little installer to add the missing original tracks is an easy installer. I can check a cd/directory for the missing folder structure and DATs and copy them and apply the missing updates from the GPLPS installer in one way. Easy. Or if there's a positive answer about the question if it is legal to offer a full updated installation it's also not a problem. If there's someone here who still has an iRacing account, ask Nim Cross/David Kaemmer if he sees problems creating a freeware GPL community driven installer which would not require any CD.

Monza10K is fine. Bugatti had online racing problems from my memories. Laguna Seca runs like a charme. Reims 66 should be OK and  Brands Hatch 66 too. Riverside 66 should be great.
Who checks permissions from the track makers and addon makers? I have asked a lot for those thinks included in the GPLPS Installer as well as in the 65Mod and 65Tracks.

As for a lot of these: Lee's patches, dirtgear, GPLFog, CarCamEdit, Tire Temp Utility I should recreate a new GEM package BUT I remember that the GEM plugins had to be choosen wisely. A lot of people think they must "check" those and are unaware what can happen (60FPS patch and online racing for example). But this is not depended for the GPL Demo. A new thread about a readjusted GEM package

[Michkov]

....continued from above

Stefan Roess, on Jan 10 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

Sure I will do.
I can also create a domain and host the new demo.

That would be awesome.

Bernd Nowak, on Jan 10 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

I would like to add one or two tracks where we have permission and which have a great online and offline ranking. Ideas or proposals?

Something well know, new and shiny? The demo should grab the the attention of people, no? Spa67 is out, too hard to get to work reliably IMO. Monza 10k is a favourite of mine, as is Dundrod which is a beauty fits the era but less well known. Also the question if Jim Pearson would agree to its use that fashion. All in all I wouldn't include more than 5 tracks to keep the size down and drive people to the forums if they want more.

M Needforspeed, on Jan 09 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

With alls the sims on the PC market now, and all the tracks they have, I think if we want the installer a tool to get newcomers interested in GPL, it needs at least the 11 Original tracks . Bugatti wld replace Rouen. So for a short time , they ' ll have more tracks to tests, and more time spent on the asphalt, before they put an appreciation on GPL.

Pete Gaimari, on Jan 10 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

What makes GPL above all the rest of the sims out there is the championship season. You need all the tracks for that. How is someone new suppose to race GPL as it was originally intended?

I could only find a few GPL CD's for sale. What happens when they're gone? Where are they coming from to begin with. Someone is making and selling copies of the GPL CD. Who is that?

How would this work? Just include a few tracks of the of the Historical V2 mod in the demo. Then include the rest of the season in the Historical mod. Including all the non championship track. Someone new would have it all with just two installs.

Would that work?

Are these considered Papy tracks? Almost a full season.

Kyalami68
Mexico multi season
Monaco Rocks/Monacane
Mosport Rain
Nurburgring 65-69
Buggati
Spa67
Silver2
Watkins Fall
Zandvoort Multi Season

How do you add the missing Papy tracks to the demo without the CD?

The question of GPL being abandonware has been discussed to death each time it comes up. Yes its out of print and the few 2nd 3rd 4th hand copies circulating around are the only ones available. If it were any other game I would immediately call it abandonware and offer a full version to download. But after what happened to NASCAR Racing 03 I'm a bit hesitant when it comes to Payprus software (and yes I know how paranoid I sound). So any papy tracks not in the original demo are out IMO. Which means from Pete's list Bugatti, Spa67 remain as all others are just graphic updates to the originals. Not sure about Mosport Rain and Monacane though.
In the end people are crafty enough to ask for the original tracks via back channels. Or you just say screw it nobody cares about this game anymore and put them on the track database. I still wouldn't include them in the demo though.

That said looking past a working demo, I can imagine addon packs which would provide the mods and their respective seasons tracks in a all in one installer.

[fajanko]

Michkov, on Jan 11 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

That said looking past a working demo, I can imagine addon packs which would provide the mods and their respective seasons tracks in a all in one installer.

Great idea!

[Pete Gaimari]

I don't know anything about the past demo, but I thought there was a way to get the original tracks to make it complete. I guess that was done illigally?

[Bernd Nowak]

No  idea. Just completed one part which is new to the installers but will find it way to the other installer as well

Attached Files

•  UserCreationPageWithDropDowns.png   12.38K   56 downloads

[Pete Gaimari]

That won't work for me.

My name isn't Bernd.

[Bernd Nowak]

So I can setup the driver name, nationality, team, helmet color. Is it more which is frequently asked like tractionhelp,brakingHelp and detailBias (still 79? for a starter)?

[ginetto]

Detail bias between 75 and 99 will give the same result. You can choose the number you like the most.
No accelerator help
No braking help
No automatic shift
Number of sounds 8

Then, when a new player is created, GPL always goes straight to the Controller setup; can this be done the first time entering the game or it will be skipped if you set up the player outside GPL?

[Bernd Nowak]

I can skip this by using keyboard controls first.

[John Woods]

Michkov, on Jan 11 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

But after what happened to NASCAR Racing 03 I'm a bit hesitant when it comes to Papyrus software...

Is it not the case those rights to that different software were sold by Sierra On-line to DK & Co to start what became iRacing, so not the same thing?

Don't think this is so much about increasing user numbers as it is about making it convenient for those who for whatever/however reason decide to try. So there will be less of those who make the effort to get here with problems and then give up before solution is found.

[Iestyn16]

Watkins Glen, Monza, Spa67 and Brands Hatch 67 sounds ideal to me. The two original demo tracks, possibly the easiest tracks to start with (Monza then Watkins Glen). Then Brands, pretty much the '12th papy track', as they worked on the non-championship round, but didn't ship it with GPL, and Spa67, to represent GPL in 2015, more accurate, brilliant graphics and requiring a modern PC as a benchmark.

The idea to install mods in an add-on installer is also a good one. There's a delightful synergy, Bernd, in your return coinciding with the ideas of installers for a modern demo, CA66 mod etc. Including the driver set up in the installer is a nice improvement also.

Edited by Iestyn16, Jan 14 2016 - 03:11 AM.

[ginetto]

Bugatti was the actual 11th original track.
There is a Bugatti 1967 in advanced development and  I think that would be perfect for the demo.

[leon_90]

ginetto, on Jan 14 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

Bugatti was the actual 11th original track.
There is a Bugatti 1967 in advanced development and  I think that would be perfect for the demo.

That is great! Bugatti (and Le Mans) would need a major overhaul
About Monza.. The track hasn't been really updated since what? 10 years? It is quite a shame since it is an iconic track. Even all of the modern sims have it. Basically the one included in the 2016 demo will be the same of the 2004 one...

[ginetto]

Well, you can start and build a new version if you like, nobody will stop you.

[leon_90]

ginetto, on Jan 14 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Well, you can start and build a new version if you like, nobody will stop you.

I didn't mean to sound polemic. Of course nobody is obligated to work on it if he doesn't want to. What I meant was, why not including better updated tracks instead of the Glen and Monza which are the same as 10 years ago? Why not Kyalami by Jackseller and Mexico multi-season? Or Mosport Rain to show that also GPL has some sort of weather effects (and potential)? Why including tracks which have never been properly updated since, instead of more modernly updated one? Just because they were in the original demo? This new one has already gone past that. Otherwise new people will say "look the tracks are the same as in 2004, this sim is pretty much dead".

[M Needforspeed]

Leon,

I see your point, and Monza need certainly smalls improvement, but you can see for the highly detailed research done for placing correct objects, and correct textures, that it is still a track the "community" has to be proud of. I don't know about the correct distances and shape of the layout ( Papyrus fault, the improvers had to be content with ), but that' s still a masterwork .Just ask Swen Seegert for the great job . We did patiently researched bits and pieces data.

The detail RPolice level for all the long pits adverts ( and as you see, there are manys !!! ) and buildings is not matched by many others GPL tracks, even today !

in 2004 ( Time goes fast ! ) It was maybe the first track ( extra tracks included , and before Monaco Rock) to reach such level of details in GPL .

Edited by M Needforspeed, Jan 14 2016 - 09:17 AM.

[leon_90]

I understand Michel I don't know how much a generic sim driver might notice of  such precision, which I love and respect as it is everything in GPL, compared to more captivating features like graphics or rain. Only the one who research and study about these arguments knows exactly what was where. For everyone else not competent in the area they are just textures like many. Don't know if what I'm saying is clear

Edited by leon_90, Jan 14 2016 - 09:03 AM.

[M Needforspeed]

Yes,  I am dreaming and we overestimate the historic side of the game as appealing for many GPlers...
As soon as a few days ago, you have seen that there aren't been so much reactions (if any !!! ) about the extremely realism police cars offered by Gianfranco, Chris, Mario Muller, You, and all the contributors
Did those who installed 67 V 2.0 have forgot how to use the cameras to look at those beauties, track after track ?

Not any will for polemic,  here , either.
But from what I have read in the latest posts, seems it is going for a redirection to downloads  completes add ons packs with season.inis for each carset. Then, the tracks selected in the demo aren 't so important  to promote GPL

Edited by M Needforspeed, Jan 14 2016 - 09:48 AM.