166 replies to this topic

[M Needforspeed]

John,

You give others arguments that I share;Thks for your help !

[John Woods]

There could be a note in the readme letting new users know many features of Grand Prix Legends are available because the creators offer them free while retaining specific rights, such as the "welcome to distribute with permission" request that is typical, and, because of this users are encouraged to additionally consider...(insert list with links here).

Such as, Replay Analyzer, CarCamEdit, GPLSA, SA65, Tire Temp Utility, GPLFog...probably some others.
Along with instructions on how to create buttons for each in GEM+.

BTW, GEM+ used to have an option for changing driver view camera...what happened to that very convenient feature?

Edited by John Woods, Feb 16 2016 - 08:47 AM.

[Pawgy]

ACHIM KRAFT, on Jan 06 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

Hi Michkov !


I have allways a copy from the 2004-demo in my archive. I use this for some helpfullexperiments.

I found on F1Legends from Jackseller a new 2013 demo:
https://www.f1legends...nstallation.php
(look at the first link in the text)

I dl the 2013-demo but not try it for the moment, so i can not descripe what is in. Unlucky i did also not understand the french text in this forum.

As far i know, all work from Jackseller was well done before. So try it.


Greetings

Achim

ezechiel47, on Jan 06 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Hi all,

gpl 2013 demo by F1legends works 100 % well.
it contains :
-all all patches needed to run on a modern pc
-original 67 cars with gplea addons and some other ones
-watkins glen and urbanya
-v2 rasterizer
-pribluda for v2 rasterizer (1121)
-gplshift v 0790
-ffb2 patch
-some new menu in better resolution

its just click and play : a great contribution to gpl world !

if you need more infos, just tell...

yours

Ez

I downloaded this and everything runs fine but it is not in English and you need to know the English version of GPL  before trying this.

Edited by Pawgy, Feb 25 2016 - 02:54 PM.

[John Woods]

Pour plus d'authenticité Grand Prix Legends, apprendre le français.
Or use Google translator.

[fajanko]

Any news on this project?

[blimpe]

fajanko, on Jun 20 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

Any news on this project?

I also would like very much to know any news.
Away from gpl for more the ten years...
I'm blimp (Neri) from Porto.
Any of my old pals still around?
Cheers to all of you.

Edited by blimpe, Sep 12 2016 - 02:27 AM.

[Michkov]

Lets get this rolling again. Using the 04 demo as a basis, here is a quick write up what needs to go into an updated demo. Take this as a to do list

What's in the demo

• GPL.exe patched to latest spec and 60fps, v2rasterizers,ffb2 (NoLetterbox(?),Pribluda(?))
  
  
• GEM/IGOR & GPLRA
  
  
• All 7 original cars
  
  
• 3 tracks
  
  
• Sounds, apart from engine sounds if better ones are available
  
  
• Menu and layout files, optional if 04 versions are good enough
  
  
• Quickstart guide

@1 As I understand this is pretty much done as this is all in the installer. Every patch with question marks is still up for discussion, but should be included IMO.

@3 Post 04 model, texture and engine sound updates should be included. Or at least a list compiled so we can ask the authors of said files if we can include them/ have alternatives in case of someone is against use of their files.

@4 Tracks are Monza, Watkins Glen and one TBD (I'm going to ask in another thread). Same thing as with the car updates applies to the tracks. I'm assuming only Monza and Glen for now as the 3rd will most likely be a newer track.

@5&6 see 3&4

@7 Single page overview how to go from GEM to track. Plus link to additional tracks, mods, support(SRMZ), Credits(textures etc)

That is what I think of as a feature complete GPL demo. Main problem for me is nailing down all the updates from 2004 on, because my install is a mix and match in every aspect. So your suggestions below would be great.

[John Woods]

Why only three tracks and not...oh maybe twenty or so?


Skid Fun release followed discussion about a new skid pad for the new Demo?

As things are always indefinite on the internet cloud of everything, maybe better to load up the Demo when the chance is there.
What is the practical limit?

Edited by John Woods, Sep 12 2016 - 03:24 PM.

[db312]

I didn't know about that new demo and it's really a great idea !!!

After reading all the topics..................... I just want to repeat one thing :

It seems clear to look after the graphic quality AS A WHOLE !!!
(every time I showed GPL the first reaction was : It looks cool but why the faces are so ugly...
Until I replace all of them by the works of Eguzo... After that, no more predictable reactions...
(item in the cockpit view, the arms, gloves, wheel...)

And add that is really important in my view to incorporate VERY stables setups...
Why ? Because without it, it will simply discouraged immediately the immense majority... No doubt about it.

When I try for the first time WatgCA71, I blessed his author to have the simple and good idea to help in the discovery...
With a real good and stable setup ! I enjoy and adopt this track immediately, surprising isn't it...?

I think Reims66 (with Thomas Leachele's update), Riverside71, Stardust or Nassau would be nice.

That's all !

I encourage all of you and thank you for all what you've done, and will make !!!

Edited by db312, Sep 12 2016 - 05:15 PM.

[Michkov]

John Woods, on Sep 12 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

Why only three tracks and not...oh maybe twenty or so?
...
...
As things are always indefinite on the internet cloud of everything, maybe better to load up the Demo when the chance is there.
What is the practical limit?

Going with what db312 says below, it needs to look stunning. Granted we can come up with 20 tracks do look great, but most of them have 3rd party updates to make them look great which means asking the author for permission to use his update.
Next you need 7 stable setups per track. They probably exist but I dont want to go hunting for them as setups are very subjective in GPL.
Finally its a matter of choice having 3 representative tracks vs 20 gets a new player quicker on track IMO. Its the difference between "I'll take the Ferrari to Monza" opposed to "What is a BRM and where is Brno" ;-).
Of course while installing the demo or the quickstart guide should point you towards the forum and tell you there are 500+ more tracks and 50+ cars available to toy around with. Cant hurt to have some new people round here.

db312, on Sep 12 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

It seems clear to look after the graphic quality AS A WHOLE !!!
(every time I showed GPL the first reaction was : It looks cool but why the faces are so ugly...
Until I replace all of them by the works of Eguzo... After that, no more predictable reactions...
(item in the cockpit view, the arms, gloves, wheel...)

Noted. Can you provide me with a link?

Quote

And add that is really important in my view to incorporate VERY stables setups...
Why ? Because without it, it will simply discouraged immediately the immense majority... No doubt about it.

You're right. Forgot to add this to the list when I typed it up.

[leon_90]

you lads sure 60fps is a good idea?

[Millennium]

Which 60 fps patch would be used?

The 60fps AI patch works okay for me on most tracks, the only problem I've experienced is that in a race the AI drivers sometimes slow down quite a lot when they are on a long straight.

[davef]

db312, on Sep 12 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

When I try for the first time WatgCA71, I blessed his author to have the simple and good idea to help in the discovery...

This one was my top choice for the immersion factor. The historical accuracy of trackside objects and look of
this track when driving around it is incredible. You really feel like you're there. It rivals Spa67 on a smaller scale.
Road Atlanta 71, Riverside 71 & 66, Donnybrooke 71, Zolder67 are in the same league.

[John Woods]

Michkov,

Thank you for your efforts in continuing this project and for your reply to my comments.

This is a great project whether it brings in lots more users or few initially. In the long run it will surely offer benefit to both new and experienced users.

First, regarding setups. For sixteen years we have all had no choice but to either accept the default setup provided for a track, use someone else's that by coincidence works well enough, or learn to make our own. Throughout this time learning how to create our own setups has been an essential element in our efforts to improve our skills and lap times.

While some rely on default setups or setups created by other users, on occasion even they will admit to tweaking a setup and finding the results help them improve their lap times.

How many world record holders rely on default setups or setups made by someone else? Just my guess, not many and the way they became WR drivers was in part by creating a setup that matched their rig configuration and their skills.

One very significant aspect of this is that we each drive a unique rig featuring display configurations that no one else has. If we do not build our own setups we are relying on coincidence of our rig's display configuration matching that of one of the thousands of setups published.

One2fwee and I have posted extensively regarding this. You may recall the Skid Fun Display Calibrator was developed in response to this critical necessity...in anticipation of Skid Fun being included in the new Demo, so new users could dial in their display quickly and conveniently, without having to learn the complex math formulas otherwise required.

There are no universally stable or best setups. There is no such thing.

Secondly, awhile back I decided to make a list of my ten favorite tracks. Couldn't do it because there were too many I liked too much to not include them. So I thought okay, how about a list of my 50 favorites? Couldn't do that either. So I thought about making a list of the top 100, but at that point the whole idea became absurd.

There are just too many great tracks.

There are a lot of great track creators as well. If I tried to list them here for sure someone would be left out and later I would feel bad because I forgot to include them.

If more than a few tracks are included in the Demo new users would be aware of the incredible works of art that have been created for everyone's use and enjoyment. Rather than thinking in terms of specific tracks, it would be better in my view to include the work of as many track makers, and track add-on editors, as is possible given the limits of download capability. The same goes for utilities and add-ons like Replay Analyzer, GEM-plus, and the Letterbox Patch. If there's room put them in.

Finally, while I am very much aware some have issues with permissions and rights, in my opinion this concern is entirely detrimental to Grand Prix Legends and an unfortunate development in its history. Once an editor posts something up it is in the public domain. There is no legal protection for anything placed in the public domain, so it is only out of "respect" that anyone defers to someone else who claims entitlement to be a gatekeeper for something they have already let out of the gate.

Here is an Allison Hine quote from a 2008 Autosimsport magazine interview, page 52, Vol 4 Number 2, regarding her opinion of permissions and rights:

"Another thing that saddens me is the infighting over intellectual property rights. People release tracks and mods into the public domain, someone else ports it to another sim or bases another mod or track on it without getting permission or without crediting the original author.
The original author...who often based their work on someone else's...gets upset, flame wars begin. In all the uproar the original purpose...to contribute to the community...gets obscured.
I'm not taking anybody's side. I'm not saying one person is right or wrong. I'm just unhappy that this is happening. I don't recall anything like this in the early days after GPL. Something has changed, and not for the better."

Totally agree and carrying this further suggest this is one reason Grand Prix Legends has suffered in comparison to its former popularity...which btw, just my opinion, all this began with GPLEA Clermont-Ferrand arrogance and we all capitulated to it...almost all anyway, until some had the courage to ignore their claims.

This isn't N2003 and we aren''t Project Wildfire. If my very meager work were included I would consider it an honor and not an offense. (Not that it would have any chance of being considered).

There is no need other than out of respect to obtain permissions, which just seems too silly in view of the honor inclusion in a Demo surely implies.

(This post will likely be edited soon probably).

Edited by John Woods, Sep 15 2016 - 10:32 AM.

[snafu]

Although obviously something for after this was released. But would a perpetual online server using the demo and cycling through the demo tracks be a good idea? Possibly running with say 10 AI drivers by default so no one has to join an empty server? Of course we would need to ensure the AI behaved itself and didn't just pi$$ off potential new blood.

I would definitely say 60fps is a must have. I have a more than capable system which runs Spa67 with everything turned on but I suffer tearing and stutters at 36fps at almost every track. I think modern monitors are a lot less forgiving  when running outside the range of their native refresh rate.

Just thinking out loud..

TTFN
John.

[Pavel]

snafu, on Sep 16 2016 - 03:17 AM, said:

I would definitely say 60fps is a must have. I have a more than capable system which runs Spa67 with everything turned on but I suffer tearing and stutters at 36fps at almost every track. I think modern monitors are a lot less forgiving  when running outside the range of their native refresh rate.

Just thinking out loud..

TTFN
John.

Recenltl I went back to some older 72Hz monitor. What a pleasure after 60Hz monitor to run Spa67 without stutters Smooth picture all around without any patch.

[John Woods]

snafu, on Sep 16 2016 - 03:17 AM, said:

Although obviously something for after this was released. But would a perpetual online server using the demo and cycling through the demo tracks be a good idea? Possibly running with say 10 AI drivers by default so no one has to join an empty server? Of course we would need to ensure the AI behaved itself and didn't just pi$$ off potential new blood.

I would definitely say 60fps is a must have. I have a more than capable system which runs Spa67 with everything turned on but I suffer tearing and stutters at 36fps at almost every track. I think modern monitors are a lot less forgiving  when running outside the range of their native refresh rate.

Just thinking out loud..

TTFN
John.

This is a really good off-topic idea! Especially like the "perpetual" part of it now that GPL++ seems gone.
Somebody has to put something up to make that it work?
Kickstarter maybe?

Edited by John Woods, Sep 16 2016 - 09:18 PM.

[sergioloro]

blimpe, on Sep 12 2016 - 02:26 AM, said:

fajanko, on Jun 20 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

Any news on this project?

I also would like very much to know any news.
Away from gpl for more the ten years...
I'm blimp (Neri) from Porto.
Any of my old pals still around?
Cheers to all of you.

hi Neri

[one2fwee]

I would suggest tracks that aren't too daunting to learn for newcomers but also are fun for everyone and with enough depth to keep people interested.

Donington 1937 is a really good track but unfinished and I heard that it is not set up for AI? So although I really like it, maybe it isn't the best choice.

Maybe Targa is too big, both in download size and length for this kind of demo.

Kyalami is perfect but again, a Papyrus track - that said, if anyone was to make a more accurate version then that wouldn't be haha.

Mallory Park is actually a really fun track despite its simplistic first impression. However I've heard that it has connection issues for some people and it's also an early track so isn't as polished as some of the community's other creations. Same for Imola and Brands Hatch (or was Brands updated for one of the mods?).

Roskilde Ring is fun but a bit small as a first introduction and may be seen as a novelty.


There are a lot of good tracks, although for impression on new members, I would say try and avoid early GPL creations that are not necessarily as polished as the incredible more recent work - even though they can still be great fun!

[MLGathome]

If Monza and Watkins Glen are already in, I would suggest a not too long road course as third track. Brno, Dundrod, Montlhery, Rouen and Solitude are just a few that came up my mind. Good luck with your choices.

Greetings, Marcel